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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So what would happen if a Primarch was struck with a Harlequin's Kiss? The weapon seems so fool proof in its ability to kill anything and everything. 100m of wiring that floods into the victims system, which then lashes in every direction, slicing everything in the persons body. Seems like a Primarch killer to me. Aside from Vulkan I suppose, but it would certainly incapacitate him.

I suppose the true question would be, could a Harlequin land the blow?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
But it quite literally turns the victim into soup. Your body fluids leak out of every hole in your body. The only reason I say Vulkan would live is because he is a perpetual. Aside from him I think they would all die.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm not trying to argue that a Harlequin could take a Primarch in a fight, of course not. I'm arguing, that if 100 Harlequins rushed a Primarch, and one of those 100 got a lucky hit with their Harlequin's Kiss, it would kill them. Primarchs can take getting stabbed, shot, and blasted by a titan weapon, but I honestly do not think they could survive a strike from the Harlequin's Kiss. It doesn't matter how strong your regenerative powers are, if your entire inner structure gets turned into a soup-like consistency, there is no coming back... Again, unless you are Vulkan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
This is not a mere wire whipping, this is 100 meters of razor wire being injected into their bodies.

As for the momentum and force of the injection, if the force is great enough to push out 100 meters of wire, and then retract it in mere seconds, I think that the force behind it is quite great.

Taking a plasma shot from the outside is very different from being cut apart on a microscopic level from the inside. Think about how thin this wire is, 100 meters of it can fit lightly on the wrist of a Harlequin, it does not matter how thick or resilient the bones are of a Prmarch, this wire is so small that it can pass through just about anything.

In terms of the tabletop, it is AP- but has Rending. But the description mentions that it instantly kills the victim. It would be much too powerful to give every model in a 10 man squad instant death, so rending would have to suffice. In every case I have seen it used in the lore, it always results in an instant death.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Fulgrim killed an Avatar of Khaine. Take that in for a second. That's the greatest warrior the eldar have other than being able to manifest the war god themselves. Since that's not likely thanks to Khorne, the Avatar is the best. Therefore, no, I don't believe a Harlequin would be able to defeat a primarch. It's a deadly weapon, but then again so is almost every weapon the eldar and dark eldar have.
I am not saying that a Harlequin could beat a Primarch in a fight. I am saying that if a Harlequin were to get a lucky punch on a Primarch, the weapon would kill the Primarch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Fulgrim took a Raven Guard sniper bullet to the head and walked away just fine, Fabius Bile digging it out from his brainpan shortly after. The primarch intentionally had let himself be hit to play on Peturabo's heartstrings.

But I restate, their rules have them imune to instant death attacks. So Harlequins trying to toy with them is in for a quite rude suprise. The Emperor crafted his sons well.
He took a bullet to the head, with 85% of his brain still in tact. However, if this wire went into his head, his brain would be turned into water, with the rest of the wire proceeding to shoot down his neck, performing the same actions to his spinal column and arteries.

The Primarchs are immune to instant death, but I can think of many ways to one hit a Primarch. One clear example would be decapitation, using Ferrus Manus as my example. Yes he suffered other wounds, but one single strike is what actually killed him. As with decapitation, the Harlequin's Kiss leaves no time for regeneration.

And like The Irish Commissar said, the Harlequins would aim for the vulnerable neck and head of a Primarch, I have yet to read of them wearing helmets aside from Vulkan. A shot to the head would probably kill them.

If I'm wrong about the Primarchs not wearing helmets, please correct me, but I do not believe that I am.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Exactly, this is similar to the point I was making earlier. If the Harlequin Kiss wire is a simple uncurling mechanism, how much force is really behind it? Enough to shred through human flesh perhaps, but we know beings like astartes, primarchs and almost everything else in 40k for that matter are made of far sterner stuff.

And since others keep bringing up game stats and rules, I'll point out that these weapons only match their users' (rather low) strength and only benefit from their apparent lethality on a one in six chance. :wink:
I really feel that the Kiss is toned down quite a bit for the tabletop, there are several cases in Path of the Incubus and Path of the Archon where Motley, a Harlequin, insta-kills Incubi, Archons, and Kabalites alike. Even killing through the Incubi armor, which has a 3+ armor save. If you could make a squad of 10 Harlequins where all of them had instant death it would be massively OP.

The reason you do not see Space Marine combat knives shredding through armor is because only the edge is that sharp, the rest of it is not. The entire wire in the Harlequins Kiss is that thin. A combat knife would lose a lot of its power when the thicker parts of it start creating friction with the power armor. If the entire blade was so thin, it would go through armor, but also be highly ineffective because it would snap. The Harlequins Kiss does not suffer that disadvantage because it is flexible and is meant to be bent for maximum damage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
It takes a fraction of a second for the Kiss to uncoil inside the victim. The weapon does not hinder the Harlequins speed in battle.

But I do see your point, although slightly exaggerated. Roboute Gulliman was severely injured by many bolted rounds, his skin didn't do much to deflect the rounds. Primarchs are highly resilient and have a rather unknown physiology.

At this point I can go either way with it. On one hand you have the incredible lethality of the weapon, and on the other the incredible durability of a Primarch. A shot to the head I am convinced is a kill, but elsewhere in the body I would say that it would not kill.
 
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