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hello everyone i am new to the forum looking for some info on Primarchs of the 2nd & 11th chapters. I found in the book" in to the Maelstrom" in the short story "Hell in a Bottle" the iron Hearts Space marine chapter states for the Emporer , opined Primarch Rubinek. anyone got anything to add or info on this because this is the first info i have found on a Primarch name that does not match the other 18 Primarchs.
 

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There is alot of confusion surrounding the missing legions, but what I've worked out is the following (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):

That there were 20 Primarchs, and the only one that was raised alone was Konrad Curze, meaning that the missing Primarchs were educated in some fashion, even if it was by animals or xenos (unlikely).

Alpharius was the last Primarch to be found, so the missing Primarchs were discovered before him.

20 Legions took part in the great crusade, led by their Primarch, so the missing ones were present at that time.

There were 20 Primarch statues at the Imperial Palace at the time of the Heresy.

One of the Primarchs was noted to have possessed the power of "invisibility", whatever that means. None of the known Primarchs have that power.

After this I find it a little bit abiguous and open to interpretation.

Alot of info refers to "fully half" of the space marine legions siding with Horus or failing the test of chaos. This suggests that 10 legions were on each side during the Heresy. However since 2 legions were "expunged" from records this statement may not refer to them, and instead is meant to represent half of the 18 remaining recorded legions.

Another point is that all CSM legions are noted as "excommunicate traitoris", and not "expunged". This raises the question as to why 2 legions are completely removed from Imperial records. The only reason that I can think of is that these legions were completely destroyed, hence why it is safe to remove their records. If they were loyal at the time of their demise, surely they would be venerated by the whole Imperium, making it possible they were both traitors. Another possibility is that the two missing legions were involved in some Imperial conspiracy or monumental cock-up, and that they needed to be covered up somehow.

As for Rubinek, I would investigate the author, as he may be mixing up the term Primarch with what should be Chapter Master. I hope this is the case, because I really don't want there to be another "Iron" legion, that's just unoriginal.

Hope this helps!
 

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Bane of Empires
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Well said Sir Whittaker, although if I may point out one thing:

One of the Primarchs was noted to have possessed the power of "invisibility", whatever that means. None of the known Primarchs have that power.
The whole invisible Primarch (hinted at in Codex: Imperialis I believe it was?) is now considered to be Corax, since Raven's Flight was released. Its not invisibility per se, but is similar and is widely assumed to be a nod in the direction of the older background.
 

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I thought in False Gods they hint around at one of the Primarch's not making it out of the tank.

I don't remember the page but Horus saying something about what could have been when he see's himself in the base on Luna looking at the incubation tanks.

I always liked to believe that the 2nd and 18th never made it and were expunged because of unstable gene seed, or mutation. That both legions never reached the great crusade.

Of course I have little to nothing to back this up, just what I always thought sounded cool in my head.
 

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Officially, there are no names for the missing Primarchs and their Legions. GW left those two blank so that we the fans can create their own Primarchs and Legions. Go to the homebrew fluff section. You'll find some Legions and Primarchs created by other fans.

Officially, the Primarchs and their Legions were lost in two separate, terrible tragedies and by the end of the HH, their records were completely wiped. The only people alive who know exactly what happened to them would be the Emperor and the other Primarchs. There might be others among the oldest of CSM that were around at that time, but it's hard to say.
 

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@Akatsuki13: I think we can add Fell-Handed and maybe a few other original Venerable Dreadnought inhabitants to that list.

I do remember someone somewhere mentioning something about the Blood Ravens having fought alongside some unknown Primarch at some point. But since I have no idea who said it and when or where he got that information, you have just my word for it. And since my memory is like swiss cheese, that's really not much....:p

The others pretty much summed it up for the most part. And Lexicanum agrees with Sir Whittaker about Rubinek:

Lexicanum said:
The short-story Hell in a Bottle by Simon Jowet mentions a Primarch Rubinek of the Iron Hearts chapter. Primarch Rubineck is not mentioned anywhere else. Some authors seem to occasionally confuse the Chapter Masters with the Primarchs and Rubinek was most likely such a case.
Two unknown legions-link.

Hmmm. I could swear I have heard that Rubinek name somewhere before, but where...?
 

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WarWolf: The Blood Ravens' "unknown" primarch is likely to be Magnus the Red. He is unknown because they themselves do not know their own primarch. Everything about the past is supposedly "lost," which is remarkable for a chapter that prizes knowledge and history.
 

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Some blood ravens know but they ordered the records destroyed, the blood ravens have no idea about their primarch. the closest the BRs ever had to a primarch was Aarijah Vidja, the great father, who rebuilt the chapter after it was nearly destroyed. The BRs slight tendency towards psykers and genetic mutation, plus all the other links eg ahriman telling them(!) suggests the Crimson King as their primarch.

I don't think that we'll know any more than than that they existed about the other 2 legions unless they were given rather inglorious endings for them anominity may be the best
 

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Also something to keep in mind is that when Rogal Dorn is looking at the statues of the primarchs in the story The Lightning Tower, he mentions something about how the statues for the missing two have been removed and how tragic it was. This leads me to believe that neither one went traitor during the Heresy and that both of their individual tragedies were something else entirely.
 

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@Cruor99: Yes, I know the theory quite well, and I actually thought of it myself when I first read the BR background from a WD, long before I heard it was already a known and long running theory.

But, that's not what I meant. I remember reading from another forum where someone said something about a story or short story about the BR fighting alongside a Primarch that nobody knew. Was it the Big Red, I don't know, and I can't remeber what forum it was or who said it. I do remeber it was years ago....

But, back to the main subject, I somehow got the idea somewhere along the line that the statues were removed BEFORE the Heresy. And I did find this in Lexi:

20 statues of the Primarchs were erected in the Imperial Palace on Terra. By the time of the Horus Heresy, plinths II and XI "...had been vacant for a long time
The given source is Horus Heresy Chapbook (Anthology)....
 

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The idea of the missing primarchs raised by xenos is interesting. Perhaps they would not join the emperor in his crusade to wip out all the alien species and so he was forced to kill him for he was an early heretic? It's quite possible, because this is a different type of Heresy than the type Horus displayed.
If this is the case, I think it would be more fitting to have them expunged rather than hated, because the Imperium are already xenophobic and hate aliens so it does no help to know that one of their most influential beings gave "birth" to a xenos loving heretic, whereas by keeping the image of horus as a terrible thing, it leaves the people hating the ruinous powers when they are easier to fall prey to, for they are more personality and morale lapses rather than loyalty (for example, greed is a reason to turn to Chaos, bloodlust, hate or love or being open minded and/or free willed.
 

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The idea of the missing primarchs raised by xenos is interesting. Perhaps they would not join the emperor in his crusade to wip out all the alien species and so he was forced to kill him for he was an early heretic? It's quite possible, because this is a different type of Heresy than the type Horus displayed.
If this is the case, I think it would be more fitting to have them expunged rather than hated, because the Imperium are already xenophobic and hate aliens so it does no help to know that one of their most influential beings gave "birth" to a xenos loving heretic, whereas by keeping the image of horus as a terrible thing, it leaves the people hating the ruinous powers when they are easier to fall prey to, for they are more personality and morale lapses rather than loyalty (for example, greed is a reason to turn to Chaos, bloodlust, hate or love or being open minded and/or free willed.
While that would be plausable, it doesn't account for the fact that the records show both Lost Legions with their Primarchs took part in the Great Crusade. It also doesn't account for the fates of the II and XI Legions either.

Personally, I hold that the most rational theory would be that the Lost Primarchs (and Legions) suffered some sort of major genetical failings or geneseed corruption, which manifested irreversibly at some point during the Crusade. This ties in with Malcador mentioning 'seperate tragedies' and also fits with their records being completely expunged and the remaining Primarchs being forbidden from merely talking about them.
 

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Exactly. The records were expunged because their "separate tragedies" were not of a scale equal to the Horus Heresy--which could not be suppressed (at least not for at least several centuries, and then only via the propaganda efforts and deliberate misinformation policies of the Imperium).

Had that been the case, they would have been labelled Excommunicate Traitoris or some such.
 

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THe theory that i came up with is simply because of one of the named elite choices from the newest nilla marines codex along with the creationstory of slaanesh

the choice is called the Leigon of the damned.. ///Leigon\\\ not chapter Leigon. the creation story of slaanesh is that the collective psyche of the eldar created him. my thoughts are is that one of the missing primarchs and his leigon was lost in an early warp storm and the records we're expunged because at that time no one really knew what happened cause the warp wasn't prevelant yet. but because of the propaganda and stuff everyone knows of the primarchs and the space marines. how does the average imperial citizen think of most space marines... most ( who have no interaction with one) think of them the way the Leigon of the Damned are seen. Miraculous unstoppable saviors who coalece from nowhere and dissapear after everything has been made safe....

just my two cents:lazy2:
 

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Possible yes, but what reason could there be?
Possible theories:
1) were absent at the battle of terra, shame of not helping the Emperor, thus imposed their own exile
2) one of the primarchs rebelled against the Emperor, but did not join the forces of chaos, thus leaving either to start something of their own.
3) possibly committed a great sin, thus they are seeking for forgiveness in secrecy
4) left the milky way all together for some reason
 
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