Preferred Enemy and Get's Hot! on Vehicles

5363 Views 23 Replies 5 Participants Last post by NathanJD, May 13, 2014

ntaw

Discussion Starter · May 8, 2014

This may be a dumb question, but I am curious if someone else sees this different than I:

Preferred Enemy grants re-rolls of To-Hit/Wound rolls of 1.

Get's Hot! on vehicles says roll a dice before you shoot, and if it's a 1 you can potentially Glance yourself.

If a tank has PE and shoots a blast weapon, does it get to re-roll the 1 if the weapon Get's Hot?

Personally I think it means squat, all you get is re-rolled 1's on to-wound. That jive with the rest of Heresy?

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NathanJD

· #8 · May 12, 2014

But preferred enemy only gives you a re-roll if your to hit was a 1. Since blast weapons do not roll to hit, you cannot roll a 1 so therefore cannot be granted a re-roll to hit. Without this re-roll to hit you do not get to re-roll the gets hot dice. So no, preferred enemy does not allow you to re-roll a gets hot result from blast or template weapons.

This is different than prescience and twin-linking as since you are always granted a re-roll to hit, you are free to re-roll the gets hot result as per pg 37.

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NathanJD

· #11 · May 12, 2014

From BRB pg 13 is specifically states "it gains a re-roll whenever it rolls a 1 To Hit". This means it does not gain it's re-roll until AFTER a 1 is rolled TO HIT.

Pg 37 states that "If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls to hit (including because of BS6". Note the words "because of", synonymous with "as a result of". It is the rolling of a 1 that confers the re-roll, not simply having bs6 or preferred enemy.

Yes the wording is very confusing, especially because of, "it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll to hit." The "it" here applies to a model that has been granted re-roll to hit, which does not include the bs6 case in parenthesis above. This is because as per pg 13, the model was never granted a re-roll since it did not roll a 1 to hit.

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NathanJD

· #13 · May 12, 2014

It means that heavy 3 results in 3 Gets Hot dice. A question I have is that since it says you roll these dice before resolving your shooting, if you wreck yourself, does your shooting still go off?

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NathanJD

· #15 · May 12, 2014 (Edited)

Which exceptions? I see the following statements on pg 37 under "Gets Hot and Re-Rolls."

Models that have been granted re-rolls To Hit only suffer a wound if the re-roll is a 1.

Models that have been granted re-rolls To Hit may re-roll Gets Hot rolls when firing weapons that do not require a To Hit roll.

Pg 13
BS6+ grants a model re-roll To Hit if, and only if it rolls a 1 To Hit.

Pg 40
Preferred Enemy grants a model re-roll To Hit if, and only if it rolls a 1 To Hit.

Pg 43 "Twin-Linked"
You must re-roll missed To Hit rolls.

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NathanJD

· #17 · May 12, 2014 (Edited)

In the second sentence, "it" is referring to something that has obtained a re-roll on To Hit. "It" is not referencing bs6+ in the parenthesis directly. The clause in the parenthesis is just describing some ways that a model may gain a re-roll To Hit in the scenario described by the first sentence. BS6+ makes sense in the context of the first sentence, but does not apply to the second.

The book states that BS6+ is one way to obtain a re-roll to hit, which is re-iterated on pg 37. This method of obtaining a re-roll to hit however only applies to weapons that roll To Hit.

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NathanJD

· #19 · May 12, 2014 (Edited)

Yeah I was wrongly trying to simplify things by calling them sentences. I believe that each side of the semi-colon must be a complete sentence so it is more of a way to combine two related sentences together than break one up as with a comma. But as you said, this is moot as it reads the same either way. Replace my earlier references to first/second sentence with first/second clause if you wish.

The main point I'm trying to put fourth here is that the second clause applies only to models that:

- Have gained the ability to re-roll To Hit.
- Are firing a weapon that does not require a To Hit roll.

In the case of a model with BS6 or Preferred Enemy, they do not roll To Hit so do not gain the re-roll To Hit from rolling a 1. Therefore they do not satisfy the first requirement of being a model that has gained the ability to re-roll To Hit.

Similarly, the first clause only applies to models that:

- Have gained the ability to re-roll To Hit.
- Are firing a weapon that requires To Hit rolls.

The first requirement is satisfied by twin-linked as it forces re-rolls on all failed To Hit rolls. It is also satisfied as a result of rolling a 1 To Hit with BS6+. It is not satisfied by simply having BS6+, it is because of BS6+ that it obtained a re-roll To Hit. The same applies to Preferred Enemy.

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NathanJD

· #21 · May 13, 2014 (Edited)

Right, we both agree that "it" in the second clause refers to the same "model that has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit". The presence of a semi-colon makes no difference.

Where it seems we are disagreeing is with the part in parenthesis. I interpret it as an example of ways a model might obtain a re-roll To Hit.

You seem to be interpreting it as an additional criteria that may be used to satisfy the conditions for gaining a re-roll on Gets Hot.

Yes the second clause uses the same "it" of "model with a re-roll". But since it is clear from the wording of BS6+ that you are not granted a re-roll until after you roll a 1, this is not one of the ways the same "it" may obtain a re-roll when firing weapons without a To Hit roll. Which makes it not an "it" at all!

Let's try an example:
If I have $5 (from work or ebay), I can buy a banana.
If I do not work and have $5, I can buy a banana.

These sentences make sense even though getting $5 from work is impossible in the second. Both refer to the same me in the exact same state: having $5. Just as both clauses are talking about a model being in the state of benefitting from re-rolls on rolls to hit.

Me not working eliminates one possible way of attaining $5 in the same way that having no To Hit roll eliminates BS6+ and Preferred Enemy as possible ways of attaining re-rolls on rolls of To Hit.

I hope I have shown that what's in the parenthesis is a description of possible ways to obtain a re-roll, and that it is context dependant. Even though we reference the same entity in the second clause, that doesn't mean what's in the parenthesis applies to this second scenario. How a model obtained re-rolls (which is in parenthesis) is separate from actually being in that state of having re-rolls. The pronoun "it" brings with it the latter (the state), but not the former (how it got to that state).

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NathanJD

· #24 · May 13, 2014 (Edited)

Prescience and twin-linked immediately give you the ability to re-roll failed rolls to hit. These are "always on" so do not require any specific trigger like Preferred Enemy or BS6+.

I don't find this discussion pointless. It's just one of many flavors of badly worded rules that GW releases. I'm sure we'll see the same mechanics next edition, whether it be the same rules or other similar ones that will fuel the same arguments.

I find it very useful to boil down the game's mechanics into logical parts and consistent vocabulary, since GW is taking so damn long to do so. That being said, 6th was a huge step forward this respect. Here's hoping they continue the trend with 7th!

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