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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was wondering which legions had Librarians before the Horus Heresy and the council of Nikea. I know that they forbid their use at Nikea but there must have been legions other than the Thousand Sons and Dark Angels who used them, (Im only at Fallen Angels. So Im not sure if it mentions anything or not in the later books.)
 

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Bane of Empires
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Pretty much all Legions employed the use of psykers/librarians. One of the notable exceptions however were the Death Guard.
 

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The Space Wolves despised psykers, calling them witches etc. But then in a funny twist of fate Russ used them anyway! he just called them 'rune priests' instead. Did someone fail to tell Russ that a psyker by any other name is still a psyker?

As CotE stated above. Most legion's did use psykers in some shape or from. With the exception of the Death Guard. Some legions that did use them more numerously then other legions were The Thousand Sons (obviously), the Dark Angels and The Blood Angles. I'm sure there are others. I remember in Legion that the Alpha Legion used Non-Astartes psykers as conscripts in their warfare.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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They didn't hate psykers. They hated sorcerers.
 

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They didn't hate psykers. They hated sorcerers.
psyker, sorcerer, witch... tomato, tomarto :wink:

From what i read in A Thousand Sons, The powerful rune priest that betrays Ahriman was a very powerful psyker. In fact, he was more of a 'sorcerer' than many of the Thousand Son warriors. He was just more 'discrete' about it. I guess it begs the question, whats the difference between a powerful psyker and a so called 'sorcerer'? I guess it depends on who's doing the name calling?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So did the Alpha Legion And World Eaters use psykers??? I'm pretty sure I have a good idea about the rest just not them.
 

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as Gen.ahab says, they despise "magic" not "psykers" its a kind of double standard, but the things they didnt like was people who used psychic powers to directly effect their opponents (ripping someone in two with your mind, in example) the space wolves Rune priests are actually the "weakest" psykers lore wise, but rather they use their powers more shamanistically, useing it in conjunction with nature itsself, to split the very ground in half (JotwW) call lighting down to strike a specific person, to summon a powerful hurricane that can deal with a Large force, etc.
 

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useing it in conjunction with nature itsself, to split the very ground in half (JotwW) call lighting down to strike a specific person, to summon a powerful hurricane that can deal with a Large force, etc.
see to me, thats a sorcerer as well. The Space Wolves are very naive when it comes to using psykers and condemning them at the same time. How is creating a kine shield any worse than any of the things you have mentioned above?
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Its the source of the power that is the determinate. The Thousand Sons were drawing directly from the dark gods and using daemons(creatures of the warp). They didn't hate all psykers, they hated what the thousand sons were doing, not the tool but the method.
 

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Its the source of the power that is the determinate. The Thousand Sons were drawing directly from the dark gods and using daemons(creatures of the warp). They didn't hate all psykers, they hated what the thousand sons were doing, not the tool but the method.
Hang on, remember when Ahriman first met the Space Wolf priest (cant remember his name) in the warp (remember the space wolf priest saved him). They were both flinging bolts of pure energy at warp sharks in the warp. flying around in the warp and both being generally 'warpy'... is this not a Space Wolf using the power of the warp? and or, using the warp in general? come on...?

This is the reason i hate the Space Pups. I'd sit Russ down and tell him his stance on psykers is retarded if i could... then he'd cave my skull in with his fist and that'd be that.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Well not that the source of the wolves power is great, its the warp. The difference is they use raw, plain old, warp power, not the power of the gods.
 

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Well not that the source of the wolves power is great, its the warp. The difference is they use raw, plain old, warp power, not the power of the gods.
lolz, i edited my last post as you posted this, see that for an example of a Rune Priest flying around in the warp.

I dont really recall any of the thousand sons using the power of the dark gods? in fact until the very end, most of them just used the power of the warp for offence and defense. Just like the Wolves did to summon storms, lightening and crack the earth.

p.s. good debate going here!
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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The entire time they were being sustained by tzeentch. Also, Familiars are daemons.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Its called making a sweeping assumption and getting really, really lucky. Really they just thought their power was coming from some sort of tainted source and got lucky.
 

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psyker, sorcerer, witch... tomato, tomarto :wink:

From what i read in A Thousand Sons, The powerful rune priest that betrays Ahriman was a very powerful psyker. In fact, he was more of a 'sorcerer' than many of the Thousand Son warriors. He was just more 'discrete' about it. I guess it begs the question, whats the difference between a powerful psyker and a so called 'sorcerer'? I guess it depends on who's doing the name calling?
I'd say the best example of the difference between the use of psychic power and sorcery is comparing puritan Eisenhorn with radical Eisenhorn. As for the Space Wolves, I'd say the key difference between them and the Thousand Sons were the fact that the TS used the Tutelaries (not sure if I spelled it right) which seemed to me to be some kind of daemon.
 

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Bane of Empires
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whats the difference between a powerful psyker and a so called 'sorcerer'?
Sorcerers generally refer to individuals whose powers have been amplified by daemonic pacts and who are dedicated to Chaos, or infact individuals who were initially not psykers at all, but through bargains and pacts (with daemons) have become able to wield warp energy.

Where as psykers just refer to anyone of a particular race who exhibits the ability to use psychic powers.

So did the Alpha Legion And World Eaters use psykers??? I'm pretty sure I have a good idea about the rest just not them.
Yes they both did. Although the World Eater's butchered theirs during the Heresy when they dedicated themselves to Khorne.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Like has been said it's the method. The Wolves powers are fairly weak and controlled, drawn from the warp yes as are all powers. Difference is the Thousand Sons were using Chaos powers, not just the warp, they were using the powers from the gods themselves and all of them had a deamon alongside them. From my take Sorcerers are those that use psycic powers from the chaos gods and deamons. The Wolves just used the standard powers everyone else had. I can easily see the difference.
 

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Bane of Empires
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Like has been said it's the method. The Wolves powers are fairly weak and controlled, drawn from the warp yes as are all powers. Difference is the Thousand Sons were using Chaos powers, not just the warp, they were using the powers from the gods themselves and all of them had a deamon alongside them. From my take Sorcerers are those that use psycic powers from the chaos gods and deamons. The Wolves just used the standard powers everyone else had. I can easily see the difference.
'Warpspace is Chaos, Chaos is Warpspace; the two are indivisible.' - Codex: Chaos Daemons 4th ed, Page 6.

The line between sorcery and generic psychic powers has always been blurred. We may be able to see the difference, but the Wolves of Fenris certainly couldn't. Even after Nikaea for example they were still employing the use of psychic powers they were just ignorant enough to believe that they were drawing such power from the raw elements of Fenris rather than from the warp. Hypocrites. :p
 
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