[Red Corsairs]

So of the two companies that lead this industry, which do you rate the better of the two?

Bare in mind everything and not just the games:


* P3 Paints vs Citadel Paints - which of the two companies paints do you prefer using?

* PP Games vs GW Games - How do you feel Warmachine and Hordes compare to Warhammer 40k and WFB?

* The Models - one of the most important things for me is the models involved. If I don't like the models, the chances are I won't get into it. PP and GW are both on equal ground in this section in my opinion. They both have some fantastic models and they both have some poor ones.

* The people who play the game - this is an important one in my opinion, many people I come across when gaming at Games Workshop annoy the hell out of me but most of the people I've met that play Warmachine or Hordes aren't nearly as annoying. But this could be an area thing?

* Loyalty to Fan Base? - How loyal is the company to their customers? In my opinion PP is miles ahead in this one, GW has seemed to start forgetting about its customers over the last few years.


Add any others you feel need to be highlighted.

So, which is it for you?

 

[bitsandkits]

GW rates better in every aspect, but to be honest this is the heresy online forum, which is a huge clue to the feelings of its membership, the lions share of traffic on this site goes through the 40k section,then i expect WHFB and then you and a couple of others post in this section.

That aside its gonna be difficult match up as GW are still the market leaders and are far more established than PP and theres no getting away from the fact that GW pretty much invented the hobby in this form and everything PP have done is just a copy of the GW format, Hell if PP were any closer to GW they would have been in court by now, luckily the guy in charge had enough sense to steer away just enough.

I cant comment on the rules as i have not had the pleasure of playing any PP rule set.
i like some of the models but i hate a larger proportion than i like,and i fecking hate warjacks with a passion, and the idea of "steam punk" turns my belly.
Price wise i think GW are far cheaper per model.
and as loyalty goes ,GW have been producing models and rules and products that i have enjoyed for 20 years and im my opinion the only thing they have let go down hill in the last few years would be white dwarf, but with the invention of the net and new kits for most codex entries coming along all the time white dwarf is not the necessity that it once was.

People seem to take issue with GW over the slightest thing, but that in itself is why GW is by far the most dominant, PP could produce the cure for cancer in a handy easy to swallow pill, but that miracle would not get anywhere near the number of forum inches as the "return of the squats" would if GW announced it in a news letter.

 

[Jezlad]

Hell if PP were any closer to GW they would have been in court by now, luckily the guy in charge had enough sense to steer away just enough.

Come again?

How did you work this out?

---------


Considering the fact GW have totally fucked up 40k and cost me a good grand in miniatures I have no intention of ever using again I'll vote for Privateer Press.

Their fluff isn't cliched bollocks. They haven't copied everything straight off tolkien and they haven't given Orcs and Elves guns and called them different. They created a unique setting, populated it with interesting factions and amaze me with their meteoric rise in popularity. Spurred on no doubt by GW and the bubble blowing retards at head office.

As you can tell, I think all BL fiction is shit and detest the 40k background.

Model wise I'm not really interested in models - collecting them for aesthetic purposes is a step closer to geek than I'd like to go

I'm only briefly touching on the rules for the game but from what I see it all looks great - Warmachine is probably more popular than 40k and fantasy at the club now too.

 

[Stella Cadente]

* P3 Paints vs Citadel Paints
* PP Games vs GW Games
* The Models
* The people who play the game
* Loyalty to Fan Base?

1: I haven't tried P3 paints myself, but there is a reason why nobody wants to buy or use them round here, so I wouldn't waste my money...but then I don't even use GW paints
2: prefer GW games, PP games are far too competitive for my liking, I could say allot more on what I really think about them, but I won't today.
3: the models are pretty good, I like the majority of them, the plastic jacks are shit mind.
4: the people who play......I find it hard to think of them as even being human.
5: loyalty, well I dunno really, after spending allot of money on the rulebook and all the cards I have a rather biased opinion when suddenly the new rulebook is released making all the money I spent completely worthless.

 

[GrizBe]

GW for me.

Never tried P3 paints, so can't comment on them.

Games.. GW wins. I've looked at Warmachine and hordes rules, and GW wins out on ease of play for me. Plus, Warmachine just seems to concentrate on the powergaming aspect, which just isn't fun.

Models... PP does have some nice models, but GW's seem a generally better quality and are far more detailed. Plus, a hell of alot cheaper.

The players... I've never met a single person in my area who plays Warmachine, they just don't exist where I am. So in a sense, you can say They're worse then GW players, as you can never find one.

Loyalty... when I looked into getting into Warmachine, I couldn't find much support from the company for it. It seems a pretty much 'heres the rules, buy the models and give us your money' deal. GW has made some bonehead decisions... but at least it releases FAQ's asap, and has gaming articales, contactable customer support, and an abundance of stores with managers in you can go and talk to about the hobby. It would be very easy for GW to go online only to save a shedload of money... but they don't, and they keep trying to open new stores everywhere every week.... PP just seems happy to go with independant traders who know buggerall about the game.

 

[gen.ahab]

#1 P3 by far. The cover much better then GW issue... Unless you are talking about their foundation paints.
#2 It's hard to say really but I believe PP, warmachine in particuler, has a wonderful system. I read through it once and I haven't had to check anything over since.
#3 I say GW simply because they have the SW model range.
#4 PP. A lot of the people I have seen playing and played 40k are some fuck up sob. A lot get really pissy when you kick the shit out of them. warmachine isn't a game for pussies.... As the core book says. Really I am just tired of people bitching about competitve gamers. "Well that wasn't fair, I wasn't ready for a competitive game." well boofuckidyhoo you little dipshit. Pop your moms tit out your mouth and grow a set.
#5 PP. GW could give a shit as long as their quarterly reports as green.
#5

 

[maddermax]

* P3 Paints vs Citadel Paints - which of the two companies paints do you prefer using?

I haven't tried them myself, but I have talked to a friend of mine who paints professionally. His opinion was that the PP metals were terrible, but some of the basic colours were quite good. In general GW would win here, though there are other types of paints that are better for some jobs than either PP or GW ones.

* PP Games vs GW Games - How do you feel Warmachine and Hordes compare to Warhammer 40k and WFB?

I'm just getting into Warmachine, and I have to say its fun, really fun. Most of the group I play with is pretty down about the 8th ed fantasy rules, and we seem to be turning strongly towards Warmachine at the moment. After a test game the other day, a friend of mine (who is selling off his 40k BTW) commented that it was "the most fun I've had wargaming in years". I'll need to keep playing a bit more to really get a handle on it, but I'm impressed with what I've seen so far.

* The Models - one of the most important things for me is the models involved. If I don't like the models, the chances are I won't get into it. PP and GW are both on equal ground in this section in my opinion. They both have some fantastic models and they both have some poor ones.

Certainly, both have some excellent, and some poor models. I'm really liking some of the PP models ATM though, as they're new to me, while I'm quite familiar with the GW range. I've decided on getting Protectorate of Menoth because of the awesome models of theirs I saw, while helping a friend find models for an inquisitor retinue.

My only complaint with WarMachine models is the tiny legs on some of the Warjacks :laugh:


* The people who play the game - this is an important one in my opinion, many people I come across when gaming at Games Workshop annoy the hell out of me but most of the people I've met that play Warmachine or Hordes aren't nearly as annoying. But this could be an area thing?

Probably an area thing. There's usually a lot of overlap of GW and PP gaming communities, though there are probably fewer little kids playing warmachine. I've also noticed PP seem to have tighter rules, which probably cuts down on rules arguments a lot, and makes for a nicer game.

* Loyalty to Fan Base? - How loyal is the company to their customers? In my opinion PP is miles ahead in this one, GW has seemed to start forgetting about its customers over the last few years.

I'd agree with you on this one. That's probably just because PP is smaller and still growing, while GW has been dominant for too long, and probably has gotten a bit too corporate. GW still has some good points, but their customer support for the games just isn't as strong.

Add any others you feel need to be highlighted.

So, which is it for you?

I've been a GW person for a long time, but I think they're on a downward slide at the moment, perhaps not in terms of revenue, but certainly in terms of game quality and customer satisfaction. I don't think I'll ever completely turn away from warhammer or 40k, but Warmachine might expand my horizons a bit.

There are two other points I might make. Firstly, fluff. Perhaps it's just because I haven't read a lot of the Iron Kingdoms fluff yet, but I still think GW would win for this one. It has had a lot more time to flesh out it's story, and has the Black Library writers, who have written some great novels.

Secondly, Cost. PP currently costs more per model, as most are sold as individual warjacks, and units come in metal blisters. However, you don't need nearly as many models to have a decent game. At the moment, I could spend $400 dollars upgrading my Bretonnian army to be actually usable (but still not decent) in 8th edition fantasy, or I could buy a small WarMachine army. No contest there.

 

[The Wraithlord]

* P3 Paints vs Citadel Paints - which of the two companies paints do you prefer using?

* PP Games vs GW Games - How do you feel Warmachine and Hordes compare to Warhammer 40k and WFB?

* The Models - one of the most important things for me is the models involved. If I don't like the models, the chances are I won't get into it. PP and GW are both on equal ground in this section in my opinion. They both have some fantastic models and they both have some poor ones.

* The people who play the game - this is an important one in my opinion, many people I come across when gaming at Games Workshop annoy the hell out of me but most of the people I've met that play Warmachine or Hordes aren't nearly as annoying. But this could be an area thing?

* Loyalty to Fan Base? - How loyal is the company to their customers? In my opinion PP is miles ahead in this one, GW has seemed to start forgetting about its customers over the last few years.

1: A mix of both currently but I am starting to lean towards the P3 paints simply because they have better coverage, GW foundation paints non-withstanding. You don't need as many coats to cover and area and yet it doesn't really seem thicker. I have yet to try the metals but quite a few folks here use P3 exclusively so I will give them a shot as well. On the other hand, P3 doesn't have ANYTHING near like GW's washes and those are worth their weight in gold. Even if I do switch over to P3 paints (local GW is closing ) I will still probably order the washes from them.

2: Tough one here. I love 40K and I am really liking the sounds of Fantasy (yet to try it however) but at the same time I absolutely LOVE Warmachine. One thing I will say is that WM/Hordes is a far better written system than anything GW has put out to date as far as rules clarity goes. You just never get those wtf moments when it is unclear what a rule means with WM. As we all know that is not the case with GW's products. Slight nod to PP on this one.

3: GW has some nice models for sure but over all I think the WM models are nicer, far more detailed, and simply gorgeous. Of course both companies have their stinkers as well but I have to give PP the nod here as well as they don't have anything nearly as ugly as the Razorgor. I mean seriously, who the fuck approved that hideous looking pile of shit? GW gets the nod in plastics quality right now however as the PP plastics are made from incredibly shitty plastic.

4: Definitely an area thing as the guys here who play WM are also my 40K/Fantasy opponents with WM being slightly in the lead for play time at our gaming club right now. All are top notch people.

5: This is the kicker. GW doesn't give a fuck about the rest of us, only how much money they can drain out of us. When a new unit/book comes out for WM none of the prior units are invalidated, ever. MK II just came out and ALL of my units and models are just as viable as they were before, in fact all it really did was make my warjacks more on par with regular units like the fluff said they should be. PP will put out a new model and it is entirely up to you if you want to buy it as nothing REQUIRES YOU TO DO SO. So long as you have a caster and a couple of jacks, you are good to go. And unlike GW, PP puts them in a cheap boxed set that comes with RULES TO PLAY so you don't even need the main book if you really don't want to pick it up. The rules themselves apply to all factions and any special rules for a unit type come on a card that is provided with the purchase.

Now let's look at GW. Hmmm, I MUST buy these certain kinds of units to play a legal game, and oh look at that, they aren't effective unless I have 40 per fucking unit (Fantasy I am looking at you and core choices right now) and too bad if I don't have or want to buy any more of said choices. Or how about the debacle that was the Chaos Codex in 40K? Thousands and thousands of GW's loyal customers were told that the models they had assembled and painted we no longer useable with the new book. Putting in an entry for 'lesser daemons' that are absolutely fucking SHIT does not make up for the fact that I had 30 models that became absolutely useless to me unless I wanted to start up yet another army with them. Oh and let's not forget that you must buy a rulebook AND armybook/codex in order to even use these models in the first place

Let's also not forget GW's ridiculous price rises that are continually happening. Last time I checked, it was the same price for a warjack that it was when the game first came out. Compare that with Obliterators that first came out for $18CAN each and are now $35!!!! And because of that GW made sure that they remained one of those units that everyone will take. Which leads back into my last point.

I could go on at length on this particular subject as GW has really let me down these last few years. PP wins hands down in this aspect of comparison and unfortunately this is probably the biggest one for many people. I know personally 4 people who have gotten fed up with GW and sold everything they ever owned from them and have switched to PP simply because of that reason.


Oh and sigged!!! Fucking priceless :laugh:

Really I am just tired of people bitching about competitve gamers. "Well that wasn't fair, I wasn't ready for a competitive game." well boofuckidyhoo you little dipshit. Pop your moms tit out your mouth and grow a set.

 

[shaantitus]

1.Paints. Only used gw and 3rd party primers so far so i cannot compare.
2. Games. I only play 40K. I have a rule that i can only play one tabletop wargame, so again i am unable to provide a comparison. However, it is the volume of extant fluff, books and support literature that keeps me aligned with 40k. So the writers arent Literary geniuses but hey, i don't want shakespeare, i want violence etc. Also i have been around the 40k universe (through epic and 40K) since 1988. It has history with me that no other game has.
3.Models. I am not a purist. I have models from a whole slew of manufacturers in my armies. Most are gw but there are many others. Some are PP and they are ones I like(thats why i bought them.) Point is though that GW's range is huge, especially when you include the options you get from mixing the various kits. Finally they have the big stuff that no-one else has(superheavies) and FW.
4. The people don't matter. If i don't like them i will find someone else to game against. However in my area we have a great bunch of players and a 3rd party store that is very supportive.
5. Not sure about this one(no real experience with PP). GW is a business and yes they are profit driven. As stated before some of their decisions are bone headed (latest chaos codex) and their prices seem high, but as we all know there are third party suppliers who counter the pricing issue to some degree, I am also a huge fan of the second hand model market so some of their negative points don't impact me so much.

 

[Cheese meister]

i like both both companies and the models they make but my 1 itch with warmachine hordes is that all the freindly gamers suddenly become power gaming wankers when they play them also if you can make an army with a gd synergy going on you win almost all the time and pp has got into the mind set that everything needs a gimmik qs for loyalty both are tearing at me but gw just because if i lived anywer else in the country i could still get advice frm a real person on gw products but i could not speak to a press ganger like i can at the moment or i would be lucky to

 

[The Sullen One]

Where the paints are concerned, they're about the same, with some colours in each range being easier to use than their counterparts.

Product wise it's pretty similar, though I think GW's plastics are better, still I'm pretty happy with my new Firefly.

One thing I will note for British users, its easier to get hold of GW products than PP ones. For some reason U.S customs seems to have it in for PP.

 

[Death 0F Angels]

Havent gotten a chance to lay down any P3 as of yet.

As for games. Warmachine rocks the sock off of anything GW has put out. Tight rule set and easy playing make warmachine my cup of tea. While my heart will always lie with GW and i still enjoy painting their products i dont know if im ever going to need to buy another codex.

 

[Golgothas]

* P3 Paints vs Citadel Paints - which of the two companies paints do you prefer using?

I use a mixture of both - plus a bit of Vallejo paints for certain colours. If you look exclusively at both lines though, I prefer P3 for the basic colours, GW for washes (and certain metals). Presently, P3 is going through some production problems with their metals, so we have to wait awhile before the fixed mixtures are ready for distribution.

GW made some brilliant washes though, and they've been a huge help with the Orks I'm putting together.

* PP Games vs GW Games - How do you feel Warmachine and Hordes compare to Warhammer 40k and WFB?

I do not want to compare them. I like 40k for certain reasons, I like Warmachine / Hordes for different ones. If you asked me this question a few months ago, I would have told you I have a massive hate-boner for everything Games Workshop but I've matured out of that and see both game systems for their qualities and their failings.

Warmachine and Hordes, for example, really lends itself to one on one battles. Warhammer 40,000 can easily be set up for multiple players on the same table (a big table mind you).

* The Models - one of the most important things for me is the models involved. If I don't like the models, the chances are I won't get into it. PP and GW are both on equal ground in this section in my opinion. They both have some fantastic models and they both have some poor ones.

They both have different styles when it comes to model production. I do appreciate the low prices for Privateer Press though (with regard to infantry, I mean). You have to keep in mind, when Privateer Press prices a model, they price it according to its weight and materials used in the manufacturing process, not according to model popularity and power.

* The people who play the game - this is an important one in my opinion, many people I come across when gaming at Games Workshop annoy the hell out of me but most of the people I've met that play Warmachine or Hordes aren't nearly as annoying. But this could be an area thing?

I've seen people from Warhammer who are an incredible irritation and I've also seen people from Warmachine and Hordes who are the same. I do not judge a game base don its community because this changes depending on locale.

* Loyalty to Fan Base? - How loyal is the company to their customers? In my opinion PP is miles ahead in this one, GW has seemed to start forgetting about its customers over the last few years.

Privateer Press does better - as others have observed, they are still small.

Now, as for P3 paints, here, have a look at this, which I painted using exclusively P3 paints.

 

[Lash Machine]

Having got into war machine recently I would have to say that I really enjoy it and it offers something different to 40K. That being said I enjoy both games to the same level as they offer different gaming styles, tactics and challenges. The Rule set for War machine is tighter with a far nicer full colour rule book but that has to be weighed against the sheer mass of armies 40K has in comparison, nearly double compared to warmachin factions and hordes.

I have felt dissapointed in the quality of the rules mechanics of codexes in the past few years with the amount of time it takes them to be FAqed as well as the quality of the FAQs. It seems that GW are just too lazy to properly play test the rules and to check the interpretations of what has been written in comparison to the main rule book.

The interesting thing about PP models is the lack of flashing compared to GW metals and plastic. I was really surprised by the quality of PP models and I can see no difference between them offer than the lack of flashing. I feel that GW are also mising the boat to an extent by concentrating on the lower age group, 12 to 18, to score their money. They will always get the most profit out of that age range but I feel they do not think hard enough about the market share in the rest of gaming comunity and have really stopped supporting gaming clubs like they used to.

 

[bitsandkits]

I still havent seen any PP model i like the look of and that is a huge factor in playing a game for me, I was just looking at odinsgrandsons avatar of menoth in the painting threads and as awesome as the paint job is the model looks bloody awful and the beasty thing a few posts above this also looks terrible, its a "typical" dinosaur type creature with some armour plates and a stupid protruding mouth. Im not saying GW does not have poor models, but warmachine seems to sacrifice aesthetics for the sake of looking different from GW.

 

[Creon]

So of the two companies that lead this industry, which do you rate the better of the two?

Bare in mind everything and not just the games:


* P3 Paints vs Citadel Paints - which of the two companies paints do you prefer using?

Don't use either much, can't have an opinion.

* PP Games vs GW Games - How do you feel Warmachine and Hordes compare to Warhammer 40k and WFB?

I prefer Fantasy and 40k to either Warmachine and Hordes. I dislike the way WM/H puts it's armies together, it just seems static. I HATE WM warjack figures, they're just not enjoyable to paint, but like Hordes.

* The Models - one of the most important things for me is the models involved. If I don't like the models, the chances are I won't get into it. PP and GW are both on equal ground in this section in my opinion. They both have some fantastic models and they both have some poor ones.

I HATE WM warjack figures, they're just not enjoyable to paint, but like most of the foot figures, and all of Hordes. I think GW does a better job with it's minis, mostly cause plastic is easier to work with.

* The people who play the game - this is an important one in my opinion, many people I come across when gaming at Games Workshop annoy the hell out of me but most of the people I've met that play Warmachine or Hordes aren't nearly as annoying. But this could be an area thing?

For my local store, it's the same folks. No opinion.

* Loyalty to Fan Base? - How loyal is the company to their customers? In my opinion PP is miles ahead in this one, GW has seemed to start forgetting about its customers over the last few years.

Loyalty? Neither one has any. PP changed everything on their system in Mk. II, making everything previous to it useless. If you buy old product, you get the old, useless cards with them too. OTOH, they did put out a new deck for reasonable prices, allowing upgrades. GW never invalidates old codexes until their new codex is out, usually. Once they did, and put out a "get you by" megacodex until they could support the new game with new books. I have to say about even there.

Add any others you feel need to be highlighted.

So, which is it for you?

 

[Golgothas]

]Loyalty? Neither one has any. PP changed everything on their system in Mk. II, making everything previous to it useless. If you buy old product, you get the old, useless cards with them too.

Just for the record I'd like to say that this is completely untrue. When the switch to Mark II was in full swing, Privateer Press offered local game retailers a free 'product-switch' program. The store ships all Mark 1 products to them and they ship all the mark II stuff back to the store. This includes the Mark I cards.

Also, nothing from the previous system is useless. No models have disappeared or been dropped. Everything you owned in Mark I can be used in Mark II, you just need to purchase new cards to replace the old and those can be bought very cheaply individually. You do not have to purchase the card decks.

 

[jasonfly]

I swing between the two every now and then. I started with 40K, was against pp, got some pp figures really cheap, made an army, used it exclusively, went back to 40k, traded warmachine for a fantasy ork army (happy about it, all models I got were the oldschool ones + i got a full army out of it), and have now started menoth.

As far as the paints go, i use a mix of both.

Warmachine is better for allowing you to bring variety and combos, Gw games are just: this is strong, SPAMSPAMSPAM.

I have to disagree with bitsandkits on this one, some of the new GW stuff is great, but PP is lightyears ahead in the quality of it's metal models. Additionally, The new plastics they have are very sturdy, detailed and light (makes for a good change from lugging around a bunch of pewter). Don't get me wrong, I still really like a lot of GW models for the ease with which they can be converted/customized.

As far as the people who play, most people in my club are great people anyway, as all the douchebags are not welcomed (we had one guy come in for 3 months straight, saying he would buy an army and pay club membership when he bought the army, and annoyed the hell out of everyone. The manager basically told him to get out.

Loyalty to customers is where pp outright wins. Granted, GW has awesome service when it comes to replacing kits, but pp just plain cares more about the gamers. The shift from MK1 to MK2 only requires you to spend $15 (how much is a codex?), and to get the quickstart rules for free online. I never read the full rulebook, learned all the other stuff by playing. GW, on the other hand simply goes 'let's make this really strong and expensive, so we promote the expensive stuff and get MOAR MONIEZ. to get EVEN MOAR spam price rises and claim it's because pewter and plastic are getting more expensive. Well, PP hasnt had to raise it's prices for pewter minis, and plastic bags still cost the same at the grocery store so yeah. Greedy fucks are greedy, but they have well built up fluff which is entertaining to read.

I tend to trade/ buy second hand GW stuff, me and some guys even have a timeshare thing going on with some of our vehicles (I lend him x, he lends me y), and this is because i simply cant justify the prices to myself (hell, I even bought an alienware last week, and i could justify that!).

 

[Warlock in Training]

1) I like both paints, some colors are better than the others in both ranges.
2) I just learn a little about Warmachine/Hordes. What little I learn I liked. The fluff also reminds of Full metal Alchemist on table top which is awsome. However 40K is still a varied fun game with tons of fluff.
3) So far WM models arnt super duper impressive to me, that in part comes from I lean towards the futristic 40k style. But those Gunslinger Mages are fuking awsome.
4) People are douches in both games, but more people are playing WM/Hordes.
5) PP isnt big enough or coperate enough to have costumer service. However they win by a HUGE landslide. Why? Thats easy, PP product says more than all the worthless WD magazines, contradicting Customer Service, price jacking greedy bastards, BUY THIS BUY THIS GW. The PP update all their rules at once and leave nothing worthless or unsuble. GW does Piss Poor job here and pushes SM after SM realeases. Fuk U GW, fuk u.

 

[Imperious]

I've been a loyal GW fan. I was first introduced to 40k back 1991, and while I've been an on and off player over the years, I've always been in love with the 40k setting. Even when warmahordes came out, I said things like, it looks tacky and it looks retarded, etc.

And then I played a game one day... Bad idea. Big Mistake. Why? Because it was fucking awesome. That's why. So much so that now when I play 40k, all the flaws in the game are now three dimensional and have flashing neon signs.

I've spent quite a lot of money over the years on BL & 40k. I absolutley love the 40k universe. But I fear I maybe slipping into the dark side (meaning PP).

I'm not quite there yet, but I swear it looks like it's going in that direction. IF, and it's a realistic "if", but if it does go that way, I will only play one game. Why? Because I just don't want to deal with 2 game systems. But if I swing towards PP, I will still continue to buy BL books and I will still buy 40k video games, because I'm a fan of 40k and probably always will be. In fact I will probably still play 40k tabletop but with other peoples armies instead. But we'll see how that goes...

To answer the questions above,
-the paints don't concern me. I really couldn't care less.
-the PP gameplay smokes anything by GW. Period. It's not even close.
-models. Both sides make awesome models and shitty models. Opinions vary.
-people. Dumb question. Both game have assholes and cool people. But... The rules are better written so there's less of a chance of getting hung up on the rules.
-loyalty? PP again smokes GW. Not even close IMO.

Warmachine looks more alluring every time a glance. So I'm actively avoiding playing another game. But what does it say about everything, if I'm trying to avoid PP just for the sole reason of liking it more than GW?