[Jezlad]

If I'm being honest something that appeals to me when people talk about Warmachine is the opinion from many that its a powergamers paradise in the sense that people bring brutal combinations to the table - unique and often unheard or unseen combination I might add.

Is this true?

Does the game encourage powergaming (good thing imo btw, not dissing it here )

Also, are their globally recognised power builds like in 40k or is it a case of finding a sick combination of units out of thousands of possible builds?

 

[The Sullen One]

The game encourages aggressive play, and both you and your opponent will be aware of this, so basically yes it should appeal to powergamers, certainly to competitive players.

 

[hippypancake]

i feel like an idiot...whats a powergamer:biggrin:

 

[The Wraithlord]

Also, are their globally recognised power builds like in 40k or is it a case of finding a sick combination of units out of thousands of possible builds?

There are some noted builds but none of them is really all powerful compared to the rest. A great description I once heard of WM is that nothing in the game is broken because everything is broken lol. A unit that is just the complete ass kicker of the year with one caster isn't quite so much with another while at the same time an entirely different caster will make it the bomb again but in a different way than the first.

Oh yeah and as powergamers will do anything they can to win, this game goes with their play style to a fair degree. Really need to take that last wound of the enemy caster? Then feel free to use your heavy jack to throw YOUR OWN HEAVY JACK at it. Yeah that is a valid and awesome tactic to use. In fact, some units actually give you abilities that take advantage of killing your own troops at times.

Like the rulebook says, play like you've got a pair.

 

[Wolf_Lord_Skoll]

Like the rulebook says, play like you've got a pair.

I just wanted to quote it because it's such a great thing to have in a rulebook ^_^

 

[Red Corsairs]

I just wanted to quote it because it's such a great thing to have in a rulebook ^_^

That it is! Any game that says ""WARNING, NOT SUITABLE FOR WUSSIES" is filled with awesome.

So yes as you can see from my qoute and Wraiths, the game definitely encourages aggressive play.

 

[Katie Drake]

Warmachine/Hordes encourages Rock/Paper/Scissors play. Many tournaments require players to bring two or three army lists (and the models for each) and decide which list to use at the start of every round, essentially enabling a measure of list tailoring, not unlike having a sideboard in Magic: the Gathering. So yeah, it's competitive play, but it's not "use your brain" competitive play. It just comes down to knowing which units are good at taking on others and then choosing the right list to give you the greatest chance of defeating your opponent.

 

[Death 0F Angels]

Powergaming does not take on the same conotation as it does in 40k. Every warmachine player is inherantly a powergamer (wich means people dont get pissed cuz we all do it) because of the punch you in the nose attitude the rule set brings and the relative balance of the army lists. Warmachine is all about gawking at the crazy shit you or your opponent pulls off. Even winning will take second stage to that at times. Even the cheesiest list will have problems against a skilled opponent. Extremely refreshing change from 40k.
While not the end all for everybody most people enjoy the game. games can easily played in an hour. We picked up the game in the beginning for the just that reason. We could play 2 games on a weekday after work, be home and in bed by 10:00.

 

[notsoevil]

Warmachine/Hordes encourages Rock/Paper/Scissors play.

Meltas scrap tanks.
Flamers scrap units.
Etc.

Many tournaments require players to bring two or three army lists (and the models for each) and decide which list to use at the start of every round, essentially enabling a measure of list tailoring

So does your opponent and you don't get to choose your list based on your opponent's, only their army. So if I know I'm playing against Cryx, I can assume lots of infantry and choose an appropriate list, but then again I can get screwed when he goes heavy on the jacks/magic.

So, honestly, moot.

So yeah, it's competitive play, but it's not "use your brain" competitive play.

What does that even mean?

It just comes down to knowing which units are good at taking on others and then choosing the right list to give you the greatest chance of defeating your opponent.

You mean just like every other wargame out there, right?

:rofl:

 

[DestroyerHive]

i feel like an idiot...whats a powergamer

Yes, you are an idiot (jokes).

A powergamer is a person who plays to win, and quite frankly, they piss me off. :ireful2:

 

[jasonfly]

Yes it does encourage competitive play, but no katie, you need to think about what your next move is. I have seen people come back from a guaranteed loss, just because they used some outside the box thinking and unorthodox tactics.

So yeah, it's competitive, everything is equally broken, and you do need to use your brain when playing

 

[gen.ahab]

A powergamer is a person who plays to win, and quite frankly, they piss me off. :ireful2:

Yes and no, a powergamer is a person who will do anything to win. While their end goal may be the same, a competitive gamer will not stoop to the levels a powergamer will. Your post makes it seem as though there is no middle ground and that all players who play to win games are powergamers, this simply is no true.

 

[ChugginDatHaterade]

Warmachine/Hordes encourages Rock/Paper/Scissors play. Many tournaments require players to bring two or three army lists (and the models for each) and decide which list to use at the start of every round, essentially enabling a measure of list tailoring, not unlike having a sideboard in Magic: the Gathering. So yeah, it's competitive play, but it's not "use your brain" competitive play. It just comes down to knowing which units are good at taking on others and then choosing the right list to give you the greatest chance of defeating your opponent.

This is potentially true, from what I have heard from people who play both 40k is a more cerebral game at the top levels. I didnt like the list design and playstyle of warmachine. A lot of armies seemed designed around one gimmick tactic.

Yes and no, a powergamer is a person who will do anything to win. While their end goal may be the same, a competitive gamer will not stoop to the levels a powergamer will. Your post makes it seem as though there is no middle ground and that all players who play to win games are powergamers, this simply is no true.

I do like the page 5 of warmachine rules. You are going to lose in any game you play, quit crying about it. Either play for funzies and dont worry, or learn the game and start to win. A lot of assholes want to show up, not think about their army or tactics, and also win the game. It doesnt work this way.

 

[gen.ahab]

This is potentially true, from what I have heard from people who play both 40k is a more cerebral game at the top levels. I didnt like the list design and playstyle of warmachine. A lot of armies seemed designed around one gimmick tactic.

Maybe, but from what I have seen of warmachine, you have to be very carful. More than one battle report I have viewed has ended up in a WTF scenario(one side is clearly getting pummeled into the dirt, to the point were it would be all but over in 40k, and pulls a win because the entire massacre was a well though out plan to lure a warcaster out to snipe).

I do like the page 5 of warmachine rules. You are going to lose in any game you play, quit crying about it. Either play for funzies and dont worry, or learn the game and start to win. A lot of assholes want to show up, not think about their army or tactics, and also win the game. It doesnt work this way.

I do enjoy its simple elegance. :laugh:

 

[ChugginDatHaterade]

Maybe, but from what I have seen of warmachine, you have to be very carful. More than one battle report I have viewed has ended up in a WTF scenario(one side is clearly getting pummeled into the dirt, to the point were it would be all but over in 40k, and pulls a win because the entire massacre was a well though out plan to lure a warcaster out to snipe).

I dont enjoy the "HURRR kill the caster" aspect of it. Just seems in a lot of ways basic and lame. Also, that player shouldnt have gotten cocky. A game that is won or lost based on one guy means you protect that guy.

With that said I did read a rather amusing batrep where a khador player was dumb enough to let his warcaster get sniped on the first turn of the game.

 

[jasonfly]

There are also scenarios, not merely 'kill the other guy' battles, and winning by scenraio is encouraged at tournaments as more points are awarded for a scenario win compared to a caster kill.

Also, isn't 40k similar to that? If I take out your deathstar unit X, you may as well give up. Before someone says larger point games have more deathstar units, warmahordes also has multiple casters/locks at higher point levels

 

[ChugginDatHaterade]

There are also scenarios, not merely 'kill the other guy' battles, and winning by scenraio is encouraged at tournaments as more points are awarded for a scenario win compared to a caster kill.

Also, isn't 40k similar to that? If I take out your deathstar unit X, you may as well give up. Before someone says larger point games have more deathstar units, warmahordes also has multiple casters/locks at higher point levels

If you play bad kids sure its all about killing the deathstar unit. Good players though dont do deathstars.

 

[jasonfly]

True enough, they bring 3x of each thing, or spam razors. That was the main thing that pushed me to play warmachine as well as 40k. That and steam powered robots beating the shit out of stuff.

+ you quote my initial reply but do not give a response, did you miss it?

 

[ChugginDatHaterade]

Oh, I only intended to respond to the second but forgot to delete the first proposition out of my quote. However I should probably respond to that. The review I had of warmachine comes largely from people I know who used to play it. And they complained largely of kill the caster being the way to win 99% of games. However this was years ago, so they came has likely evolved. The idea of more scenario based missions is definitely good news. Although as I understand your caster is still so crucial that losing him can often be the end of a game.

I do feel that a wargame should be about the overall army more. I find that competitive 40k player offers that with the current MSU style. And while razor spam is effective, its just one of many many types of armies that can win games.

Finally, I play a game called heavy gear. I have found that there is little to no hatred for people running high powered armies with the playerbase. The meta is strange, in that most factions can build any kind of army. You can do horde rush, artillery, commandos, or whatever with most of the factions. In addition tactically it is in lots of ways better than 40k, plenty of variables to keep track of.

 

[The Wraithlord]

Kill the caster is the most prevalent simply because that is what they give you in the starter rules that come with the starter boxes and many people just don't move on to the scenarios quickly as this game takes awhile to get used to thanks to the game mechanics and the combos that come from it. Once you get into the scenarios though you will only find the game improves in a big way.

I play WM/H, 40K, and Fantasy. Each has their strengths and weaknesses without a doubt and all three are immensely fun in their own right. I would have to give the nod to WM however as I find it a far more fluid game to play.