Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, here's the story:

Last night in a APOC. game,

Eldar, Nurgle (WTF?), and Black Templars vs. Orks, Grey Knights, Tau, and Space Marines.

So instantly, it was known that if I was fighting the Grey Knight player, guess what? He'd be bringing his UNLIMITED RANGE Psykic Hood. Surprise surprise. I was aware of this. As we're playing the game, the BT player on our team kills off his inquisitor, the one that NORMALLY when we play has it. However, he tells us that the Hood effect is still in play since the Inquisitor was NOT the one with the hood. (Which I found hard to believe since all it did was hide in the back of the table behind a building doing NOTHING, which makes no sense unless it had something doing something affecting the field.)

SO, here's what happened. When that happens, I hear that the hood is still on the field. So I go

Me: "Oh he DIDNT have the hood? Oh, well shoot. I thought normally you put it on him. Well alright. If he doesnt have it who does then?"

Grey Knight Player: *With cocky smirk* I dont have to tell you! :biggrin:

Me: Wait, what? What the HELL are you talking about!? W/e someone asks me or you, or another player WHATS on a unit, or in a transport, I and whomever tells them! What on EARTH are you trying to pull telling me you DONT need to tell me who has the hood?! In all the other games I've played, you've said "This guy has the hood" and pointed it out, so WHY is this different!?"

Grey Knight Player: *AGAIN with cocky smirk* Doesnt matter. I DONT need to tell you! :biggrin:


So I want to ask you. IS HE ALLOWED TO DO THAT? Claim he doesnt have to tell me a unit that might have that hood or what its carrying!? I tell you, for a Grey Knight player, he doesnt ACT the way by hiding all his guys behind stuff cowardly and then saying he doesnt HAVE to tell me anything and talking to me in a condescending tone! It just makes no sense where everywhere else I've ever played, if I say "What does this unit have?" my opponent always goes "This squad has a blah blah, and hes equipped with a blah blah".

So, COWARDLY Grey Knights allowed with underhanded tactics, or was he just trying to be a pansy and hide from my frail little Eldar that APPARENTLY are soooo scary? :mad:

If I sound angry about it, its cause I am! Its extremely unsportsmanlike and underhanded in my mind to even do something like this just to gain the upper hand on a player whom HE THINKS is stupid and doesnt now know 80% of the rules in this game after a year. And yes, hes WELL over a 5+ year vet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,709 Posts
Did you ask to see his list? He'd have to show you that. He has to be able to tell you who he has taken and how they are equipped. Otherwise, you can't be sure if he's cheated. Ask to see his list and then you'll know who has the Hood.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,453 Posts
That's not just cowardly.

That's properly shameful.

A 5+ year vet who doesn't know that you're obliged to point this stuff out to whoever wants to know? Even I know that, and I barely play the game, I go for months without even stepping into Games Workshop.

Show him this page, ASAP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,976 Posts
Ok, this comes up occasionally before. See P92 of the BRB, a Note on Secrecy. Short answer is you were right on this one, and he should have told you.

If you hadn't agreed to secrecy before hand, then he would have to tell you, or have a guy with a modelled hood, where you could look through all his models, and find out which guy it is. At the very least, you should be able to go through asking, "has this guy got a hood? Is the hood in this transport" for every single transport, until he told you, or gave up trying to hide it in frustration.

Really though, next time show him the rules, and If you haven't decided to play with secrecy before hand, especially if you've declared everything for him, then he is being cowardly, but more to the point, he is making the game unfriendly.

I hope that helps somewhat. :) Good luck, and don't be too harsh on your friend, sometimes people do silly things because of a competitive spirt, or what they think is the rules. Set him straight, tell him to be a better sportsman next time, and if you keep having problems with him, just don't play him.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,719 Posts
I would say he wouldn't have to tell you who it was, but would have to explain who is using the equipment. So long as he hasn't used it, he's free to be quiet about it.

My advice? Don't play the Douchebag until he agrees to man up and play the game.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
@maddermax: Yeah, we NEVER agree to secrecy in our Gamers Guild unless there is a special rulings in the game or something to that. And that has YET to happen. EVER.

Did you ask to see his list? He'd have to show you that. He has to be able to tell you who he has taken and how they are equipped. Otherwise, you can't be sure if he's cheated. Ask to see his list and then you'll know who has the Hood.
I would say he wouldn't have to tell you who it was, but would have to explain who is using the equipment. So long as he hasn't used it, he's free to be quiet about it.

My advice? Don't play the Douchebag until he agrees to man up and play the game.
And thats the thing! My teammate said the same thing, but since the GK player DIDNT have his list as well as a few others, he said he didnt need too. But then he was finally talked down to having to say the TYPE of unit it was on. But still, its true! If he had a list, I shoulda been able to just request the list, and see whom it was on. Now understand, normally things like this that happen dont ever bother me for this long. But THIS was easily the most underhanded/duchebaggery thing I've YET to come across in the full year I've come back to 40k.

Now, w/e someone asked me what is on ANYTHING or a unit, I'll gladly tell them if they ask. If they dont, then I dont say anything. He'd even ask "What does your walker there have?" and I'd go "2 Shuriken Cannons, and its has AV10 all around." And another time, the SM player was going to shoot into my Harlie squad with Eldrad from a distance I told her "JUST SO YOU KNOW...if you shoot at them, you'll need to roll 2D6x2 to hit them, and if you dont make it, you lose your fire." She chose another target. Thats being sportsmen like. But when you run a army of pretty much Royal Knights, those who are great defenders of Marines and w/e their fluff is, and yo hide them and try to pull "I dont need to tell you what this has" crap on me, its just disgraceful! Not to mention, the person also has a tendency to pout and huffle/stomp around when hes loosing, but when he's winning, will pretty much rub it in your face.

But you know what everyone? It's ok. Why? Cause a EVENT in the Apoc game took OUT the Hood later on, and then it gave me a opening to leap my Harlies squad and Eldrad and fleet them RIGHT into his MASSIVE POINTS dump of Brother Stern and 5 Grey Knight Terminators (Maybe 4), Doom them, and get off 2 Wounds from Eldrad, 8 Rending wounds from the Harlies, and another 8 left over from them, getting in their Furious charge and STABBING all the knights with kisses. MELTING THEIR INSIDES TO MUSH. The look on his face and pouting/huffing/unsportsmanlike like conduct from him AFTER I instantly wiped his GIANT 300pt+ unit in a flash was ALL worth it! Hell, I wanted even MORE of a reaction if anything.

But due to my harlies doing that last turn, and wiping his giant HOLY Terminator/HQ Squad from the board, We gained victory on that side of the board, making it 1 Side win for us, and the other 2 points contested on remaining units.

Vengeance. It's a dish best served....BY HARLEQUIN KISSES!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
435 Posts
The guy is being an asshat. A total asshat. I'm always as clear as I can be, When I play I explain what is riding in what transport, and if anything I have is non-wysiwyg (which is almost nothing) and explain anything else he needs to know.

I don't mark which units are in transports mid game (cause my markers always fall off), but if you ask I'll tell you.

This guy acts like he was just trying to pull something over on you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Yup! And its not just this. As I said, if hes losing, will get all pouty and stuff but when winning, will have to ACT everything out and laugh loudly (which sounds soooo fake) to get EVERYONE in the ROOM'S attention so they HAVE to come see this "AMAZING FEAT" of his which, is nothing great at all.

I remember 2 Apoc games back, he Deep Struck a GIANT unit of his Stern/Terminators, and they scattered and instant died. He spent the rest of the night on my team bitching and whining constantly about it. WTF WERE YOU DOING DROPPING OVER HALF YOUR ARMY VIA DS INTO A CROWDED AREA WITH TONS OF BUILDINGS AND ENEMIES ALL AROUND YOU!?

Its the condensing tone the player also takes, talking to you like your a F***N RETARDED IDIOT cause you dont know everything his army does inside and out and he has to tell you what it does. I eventually told him to back the F off with his tone, cause after an entire school year of his crap, I wasnt going to stand for it anymore.

If he tries to pull anything like that again though, I wont allow it. I tell these stories only cause I want to know if I have the patience of a SAINT for NOT speaking up against this player and everyone allowing him to act the way he does. Again, after this last thing, I'm going to be watching him like a hawk from now on. I do feel ALOT better though knowing Im NOT crazy, and that other people/players here if faced with these situations would ALSO not approve. I just seem to be the only one that has the balls (Even if they ARE Eldar balls) to say anything about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
860 Posts
The way I see it, its a curtieosy to answer your opponent's questions about your equipment and rules. Although I don't condone how he answered you, he really doesn't need to tell you. IMO, it makes things more interesting when you and your opponent have to improvise your tactics during the battle, much like a real general does.

Its just my personal thing, but I never ask my opponent what his units have, or what "this" rule does. Really, I don't care and I just want to play the game. Although I will sympathize with you in regards that he came off as an arrogant douche and it sounded like he was just trying to cover his ass at the last second. If I was in his position I would answer your question as a curtieosy, but I wouldn't like it that you're asking about my army during the game while its in progress.
If I were you, I'd take a gander at your opponent's list before the game starts. This way you'll know what to go after and should your opponent try any douche moves, like this guy did, then you'll know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
At any rate, it's pretty cheesy. I'm more than happy to answer opponent's questions about my units, but generally don't go into detail about what they do until I need to (in the least, to save time.)

Technically, you could've just fired off a psychic power in which case he has to nominate who is using the psychic hood, you'd know then.
 

·
WFB Moderator
Joined
·
8,248 Posts
I would agree with DeathKlokk for normal games- if you haven't agreed secrecy one way or the other and havent exchanged lists then he doesnt have to declare what items each model has so long as it is WYSIWYG. But as soon as he uses something he has to declare where it is: its like saying "I'm firing my first lascannon... its in range and has line of sight but I'm not telling you which one is firing".... but regardless he needs to say what units are where and in what transports (so you'll know where the hood could be).

For Apoc my opinion changes: the rules are so dodgy (old editions, interactions of different IA books etc) and the game so large that you need to play it in a friendly style. Playing with someone that is that much of a dick is just unacceptable in my book. If this was me playing I would have asked "are you seriously being that much of a ****"?" and if he continued I would just pack up and leave... there are some people just not worth the time and aggravation to finish playing.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,719 Posts
Remember that he MUST have an army list and MUST have everything WYSIWYG for Apocalypse games.

and then it gave me a opening to leap my Harlies squad and Eldrad and fleet them
Eldrad is not Fleet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
If hes not telling you who has it, and is still trying to use it, and there is no wysiwyg model with a hood, you can claim that there is no such model on the board. Then he has to prove it by producing some kind of list or he cannot use the thing. Tell him where to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Yes, he´s a dick, and its stupid of him, but unless you agreed on open lists (or both jsut take it for granted), there´s no say in who´s allowed or not.

Usually what me ´n my friends do when we play apocalypse, we set *unlimited* ranges to 72", so its measured from somewhere, and if you did this, even if the board aint 72" wide, he´d be forced to show u where he was :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
well, according to the 5th edition rulebook of 40k, it's only fair that you should know what they have in their army list, I mean it is only fair, but this guy sounds a lot like a guy I used to go up against (thankfully he's quit and i'm free from his pathetic lies and uncalled for boasting about a game he hasn't fairly won :punish:)
He would not play fairly and he will not give in to somebody trying to put the rules straight to him, he even has the same stupid tendancy to make a stupid grin at you when he knows he's cheating to you and thinks you're going to just forget it so he can boast about it to everyone and make you look bad (trust me, i've been there :()
Surely once the user of the hood dies, the hood shouldn't be able to work anyway, that's the rules isn't it?
But anyway, it isn't fair and yes, it's cowardly and also yes, he is an ass for doing so.

Thank you for listening to my agreeable rant on players who deserve to have their models shoved up their backsides! :victory:
 

·
WFB Moderator
Joined
·
8,248 Posts
If people arent fun to play against... then dont play against them.
1 thing a friend of mine does to anyone he's playing if they turn out to be one of 'those people' is that he accuses them of cheating. When they say they haven't broken any of the rules he turns to page 2, points at the "most important rule" and says that he isnt having fun... its quite hard to argue against that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,376 Posts
Technically, you could've just fired off a psychic power in which case he has to nominate who is using the psychic hood, you'd know then.
This is what I would have done and made him show me who was using the power. If he didn't show me then the hood would not be in affect since he can't show me who was using it.

The other thing I would have said was since he didn't have a list and wouldn't show me who had it then the hood is not in affect or he is just cheating. Especially since there was no secrecy before hand. The guy was just being a jerk and it's fun to piss them off.

it is interesting though to fight sometimes and not ask a lot of questions about what has what. but this jerk couldhave been better about it. I just see it as karma getting revenge on him for being a jerk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
I would of laughed my ass off if one night he realises about how much of a jerk he is (highly unlikely in the way he is described to us) and challenges you to a fair rematch, which he gets completely owned in, thats my cue to come in and start slapping him on the head and repeatedly saying to him "dumbass, dumbass, dumbass"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Remember that he MUST have an army list and MUST have everything WYSIWYG for Apocalypse games.

Eldrad is not Fleet.
...*Looks up*....WOW!...I AM CREDIT TO TEAM. Well, luckily, had I noticed that before hand, I would have just switch Eldrad with my other Farseer with fleet, Fortune and doom in the wave serpent near the center of the table. I've rarely used Eldrad before and am SOO used to 90% of Eldar having Fleet that I overlooked it. Oh well, embarrassing, but now I know. AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!!!

And to everyone, yes, yes, and yes. It wasnt a tourny or something, was just our gamers guild playing, but still. None the less its all true, no secrecy was decided before hand, and had it continued, I was going to beat him at his underhanded tactic and start going "Whats this one have then for equipment, hmmmm?". But the Harlies did my pay back FOR me.

Karma, its a bitch aint it? >:3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
you sold have asked for a rematch or something just a kind of killteam battle and sayin "do their guns work while they are dead then?"
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top