[martin4696]

if i get it done it time i would like to take this to the final

1500 Chaos army

h.q
155 - daemon prince - MOS, lash, wings
145 - sorcerer - MOS, wings, lash

elites
175 - 4 terminators - MOS, 3 combi weapons, 1 reaper autocannon
224 - 8 chosen - MOCG, 4 plasma guns, 1 melta gun
224 - 8 chosen - MOCG, 4 plasma guns, 1 melta gun

troops
80 - 5 marines - flamer
80 - 5 marines - flamer

heavy
150 - 2 obliterators
150 - 2 obliterators
115 - predator - autocannon, heavy bolters, EA

=1498

what u guys think???

martin

 

[jigplums]

I dont really see the role of the Pred, so i'd drop that, maybe in favour of making your troops actually useful in some way.

 

[Hespithe]

I'd also drop the Pred for a couple of bare bones Rhinos and a bit more style in the two troop units. A personal Icon or Marks in the troop units may be useful for bringing in those termies should you choose to deepstrike.

 

[dakari-mane]

Double lash :laugh:

Why not wear a t-shirt that says "I cant play 40K":sarcastichand:

 

[FalcesImperatoris]

Double lash :laugh:

Why not wear a t-shirt that says "I cant play 40K":sarcastichand:

I quite agree. :laugh:

If you know what you are doing - a well rounded balanced force is perfectly viable. There is no need to copy every other monkey going down the double lash route.

Why not take a real army? - that way you wont feel cheap and dirty all weekend (unless you like that sort of thing :wink.

 

[Skcuzzlebumm]

Yeah sorry martin i did kinda switch off after i read your first 2 Lash... sorry HQ choices.

Why not break the mold somewhat and go for something different over Lash? Its only gonna keep working so well for another couple of months and by then everyone will have sussed it out (kinda like what happened to IW but no days due to the net things happen quicker).

Personally if you want a true critque it is a 2D one trick pony that can and will collapse in the face of a decent opponent.

The biggest threat is the chosen, but they will either set up within charge range of solid CC units and/or end up 18" away and therefore your opponent just dances off while pummling the princes.

Devastationary is a good phrase for this army. If the prince don't get Lash off you are quite simpley screwed. And when you consider the top flight armies (Tau, Eldar, SM, CSM, Nid) then only 2 of those are in anyway vunerable to lash (nid and CSM) and even then the Nids will happily steam straight into CC and eat everything that infilgays nearby.

So if your confident you will only face Orks, Guard or a non mech army with no psychic defence in the final then game on. but lets face it that is very unlikey and you will be better looking towards something with more flexibility and redundency.

 

[Jezlad]

I was praying to meet Lash at the Heats.

Seriously mate, it isn't that powerful.

Without the lash its a shitty chaos list. Unlucky psychic hood rolls or a full mech encounter and you could be left feeling like a donut.

 

[LongBeard]

Lash WITH the 2+* save Tzeentch bikers makes the double lash/Oblit list work, without them their Just a one trick pony that WILL fail against the top tier lists.
Good luck at the final anyhow!:grin:

 

[Urban Knight]

Double lash :laugh:

Why not wear a t-shirt that says "I cant play 40K":sarcastichand:

of course if the double lash list was that effective all the double lash armies from Heat 2 would have qualified.

On a serious note.
Drop the pred and take a Vindicator - much cooler.
Upgrade the sorcerer to another prince or lose the wings. Either the list all scores (Prince) or you start on the table.
The Termie Auto Cannon is a matter of preference. To me it seems weak compared to the Tank hunting Beuties of 3.5
Choosen - If I were to take choosen I would take a lascannon in one squad and drop it to 6 men and loose the plasma. Then add an Asp with Power Fist into the other squad.

Of course you should have found what works for you in playtesting.

My Lash list went through 15-20 iterations and I only settled on my list the night before the final. I was at one stage considering having a sorcerer BUT playtesting showed him to be v weak compared to a Prince.

I should warn you though you will feel very dirty playing the list even more than playing with Mech Eldar or Necron destroyer spam - if you can believe such a thing.

 

[Urban Knight]

2+ save Tz bikers were great. Shame they are no more ... until the next FAQ U-Turn.

 

[martin4696]

ok then guys surjest me some good hq units or other units to replace them with, and the pred was just the best thing i could think of for the points, or do i just get rid of the socerer for 2 more obliterators, and swop out the marines for either noise marines (6 sonic blasters) or deah gaurd (2 plasmas)

the idea of the dual last is to bring things out of combat and into rapid firing range of all those plasmas lol

martin

 

[jigplums]

of course if the double lash list was that effective all the double lash armies from Heat 2 would have qualified.

Not necessacarily. Did every ulthwe seercouncil spam list qualify 2 years ago? Did every IW list qualify last year? No

I Don't see why you guys should feel any more dirty than any other player at the GT. Is it any different to taking a mech list that makes the majority of someones army useless? Or drop pods That Are undercosted, along with argueably the powerful codex[marines ] using traits to optimise the damage you can do? Or any of the other variables that are out there. There are some things in 40k that are powerful, and yes lash is VERY much so, and gives a massive advantage against many armies. But there are also some that it will have no advatage over at all, like any fully mech list.

That said the sad thing is that these kind of lists, push alot of lists out of the running for other players. A mixed list with some infantry and some tanks for example is at a big disadvantage.

they make more of a difference at the qualifiers where they could help someone who wouldn't otherwise qualify get through, and smash opps that are better than them but have a bad match up. However this is the case with alot of other "serious" tournament lists as well, and many of these players will come a croper vs decent opps that know what there doing. For example 2 years ago i took a "balanced/mixed" aliatoc list with scorpians, reapers, guardians, jetbike council etc and massacred 3 ulthwe council netlists out of 3 faced. Argueably on paper there lists were much more powerful than mine, although disruption obviously helped my list wasn't maxed for it, and really they didn't know what there lists were capable of, or what to do in difficult situations.

 

[Someguy]

I'm vaguely looking at a double lash list, among other things. Here is a draft that I'll be giving some tests soonish:

Daemon prince with lash. 155
Sorceror with lash. 125

6 terminators, MoS, reaper, power fist, pair of claws, 2 combi plasma. 250
4 terminators, MoCG, reaper, 2 fists, 2 combi plasma. 185
4 terminators, MoCG, reaper, 2 fists, 2 combi plasma. 185

5 khorne berzerkers, champion, power wep. 135
5 khorne berzerkers, champion, power wep. 135

5 Raptors, flamer. 105

Oblitorator. 75
Oblitorator. 75
Oblitorator. 75

I don't think we have yet seen the best lash list. My option is to go for a fairly brutal close range set up with the lashes dragging stuff into it. Pretty obviously, it's weak against mech with just the oblits and a few reapers. That seems a problem for chaos in general though, not specific to lash.

I've been vaguely looking at a second HQ that doesn't have lash. One option would be to swap the DP and raptors for Ahrimman, who with 3 bolts a turn has some pretty interesting anti mech skills. Obviously one lash is way less good than two though so I don't think I'll try this right away.

It's a bit frustrating that it's so hard to get anti mech outside of heavy support and the oblitorators aren't very good really. I might look at having some havoc squads instead, maybe losing the havocs or a berzerker unit to pay for the upgrade.

 

[Skcuzzlebumm]

the idea of the dual last is to bring things out of combat and into rapid firing range of all those plasmas lol

martin

Ok well then half your plan is out the window straight off as it is NOT possible to pull units out of combat with lash as it follows the standard rules for shooting, which means you CANNOT target units in close combat.

 

[jigplums]

For chaos you have a few options for anti-armour, obviously you have the heavy support options to explore. Oblits work well with the lash with the Plasmacannons, whilst preds are versatile, although my guess is you won't wanna go that route . You could go with CC defilers which work well with lash too. Drag unit forwards and fleet a defiler in to rip it a new one. Also once they reach defilers are good at killing tanks, unless its skimmers. Plus you have havocs which have the best firepower but least manauverability. Raptors and chosen are two other options,
2 melta's that are moving in rapidly, with the threat of a powerfist if need be are pretty good, plus have the advantage of serving multiple roles[raptors kill troops well too]. Raptors are really cheap for what you get, and big units get very cheap benefits from the various chaos marks. Adding an icon also works well with other elements of your army namely termies and oblits.
Chosen give you a few anti-tank options, infiltrating for side armour, plus being able to have heavyweapons in small squads, and also the close range special weapons fire from plasma and meltagun death. Again they can solve several roles.

There were 2 main Netlists that i saw immediately when the codex came out[actually before] that being the oblit/termie spam and also the raptor swarm[not seen someone put the army together yet]. However i think theres a big oppertunity for the mixed but synergetic list to do well as well.

Termies and combi-weapon give you a great "one-shot" powerpunch, great vs elite armours and often vechiles if you can get into position.

Using raptors with an icon, to ds in oblits/termies where you want them could be a very powerful tactic if you get it down well.
I think the real "dillema" that faces chaos players is what to do with your troops choices. Go with cheap units that will do very little? 10man squads of csm to get Heavy weapons are expensive heavyweapons and you can't even split like combat squads. Or expensive but powerful "god" troops?

I've waffled on a bit there, but if i were to look at your list as is i would say a] sorcero needs MoS, and i would change for second prince as its a scoring unit. Get more oblits over termies as overall there better imo as they serve the role you need in the list and 1 oblit is easy to take out.

I think if i made a list from scratch around lash i would go with 2 preds and 3 oblits as my hvy support, with raptors to ds oblits and termies too. I helped my mate come up with his gt lash list, but he decided[after some pressure from myself] to go with a fluffy slanesh list.

 

[jigplums]

Remember neil that GT Houserules has only recently been updated, and throughout heat 2 wasn't played as such. Its a cliquey thing many GT players do, assuming that if its in the gt houserules it must be right. Bearing in mind its come from the same guys who have basically re-written parts of the rulebook by saying that deepstrike happens whenever you want in the movement phase, etc... Not saying i don't agree or that it won't be ruled on officially, but how many times have we seen the rules on the faq's change. To state it as if its a well known fact to someone who may not have seen the latest update is maybe a little misleading

of course if the double lash list was that effective all the double lash armies from Heat 2 would have qualified.

On a serious note.
Drop the pred and take a Vindicator - much cooler.
Upgrade the sorcerer to another prince or lose the wings. Either the list all scores (Prince) or you start on the table.
The Termie Auto Cannon is a matter of preference. To me it seems weak compared to the Tank hunting Beuties of 3.5
Choosen - If I were to take choosen I would take a lascannon in one squad and drop it to 6 men and loose the plasma. Then add an Asp with Power Fist into the other squad.

Of course you should have found what works for you in playtesting.

My Lash list went through 15-20 iterations and I only settled on my list the night before the final. I was at one stage considering having a sorcerer BUT playtesting showed him to be v weak compared to a Prince.

I should warn you though you will feel very dirty playing the list even more than playing with Mech Eldar or Necron destroyer spam - if you can believe such a thing.

Ok well then half your plan is out the window straight off as it is NOT possible to pull units out of combat with lash as it follows the standard rules for shooting, which means you CANNOT target units in close combat.

 

[jigplums]

My mates lash for reference was roughly

Lash prince
Lash prince

5 termies [reaper,2 combi, powerfist, chainfist MoS]

6 Noisemarines, blastmaster, sonicblaster x2
6 Noisemarines, blastmaster, sonicblaster x2

6 Raptors powerfist 2 meltas MoS
6 Raptors powerfist 2 meltas MoS

Obliterator
Obliterator
Obliterator

The list could be made more powerful, i would prob put more oblits in over termies, but he was going for fluffy slannesh with lash rather than lash with heavy weapons. He managed 3 massacres, 1 draw and 1 narrow loss and a loss due to major cheating at the gt

 

[Jase]

Drop the pred and take a Vindicator - much cooler.

Vindictaor's are a one trick pony that very rarely works and is a massive bullet magnet in my history. not worth it.

Upgrade the sorcerer to another prince or lose the wings. Either the list all scores (Prince) or you start on the table.

with wings you DO start on the table, it states in the rules that you MOVE as jump infantry, whereas the jump packs say you COUNT as jump infantry. so technically with wings you do start on the table as you count as normal infantry that can move differently.



however i like the Raptors with Melta fist and MOS.

 

[Someguy]

If you find yourself using the word "technically", such as in the case of wings/jump packs, it is time to think again in my opinion. Basically you are playing on borrowed time until the faq comes out... whenever that may be.

By the way the list I posted above is costed for MoS on the DP and sorceror. I didn't write it because it's basically essential. See how I didn't save myself some time there.

 

[Urban Knight]

Vindictaor's are a one trick pony that very rarely works and is a massive bullet magnet in my history. not worth it.

I suppose you right they are really rubbish in a marine army.

In a chaos army however there are much bigger threats and for every high powered shot going at it there is one less going at the much more vulnerable Oblits.

To me a vindicators value isn't in what it does but in what it forces your opponant to do. A bit like indirect fire Bassi's and the old Defiler. In general a bit rubbish but when it works it is ACE and it is the fear of it working you use.