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If your currently playing as an imperial guard army then don't over look taking a mortar support team. I know what your thinking, their ugly and uninspiring, the points used for them could go toward some masssive tank or officer killing machine. BUT, in all my recent games my single mortar team has been responsible for causing more havoc than either one of my two Leman Russ's. I play against Eldar mostly, and am usually out classed on every part of the battlefield, but my mortar team has the advantage of being out of sight while dispensing death, it must be said that i nearly always hit the target, and the salvo firing helps. never target powerful units or single characters, you best off hitting units like guardian squads, they get no save and a big S4 hit. In one game my opponate was so eager to get his guradians into shuriken range that he packed em all together, 9 died as a result.

Their also great at "thinning" squads out, just chipping away at units like Dire Avengers or Howling Banshees makes them less effective when they get into range, or before you charge them. In another game one of my infantry squads was well within the Eldar players charge range with his Howling Banshees, i decided to try and thin them out so at least they'd me less attacks in CC, I managed to kill three and pin the rest, needless to say the infantry squad breathed a sigh of relief and killed the rest. And all this for 80pts and from behind a building.

:pull:
 

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Pinning is the bomb-diggity. I've always gotten a kick out of killing one model with a sniper rifle and subsequently having the lot of 'em hit the deck. I think my favorite example was a few days ago, when I brought down a raider with Wyches in it, and had them pinned for the entire game (or, rather, until I killed them all.) Five snipers just kept shooting them, and they kept failing their leadership. The only casualty on my side in that game was my Captain, who took a wound-- he wasn't even dead. Not bad for a 1200 point game, eh?
 

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Doesnt matter your leadership with enough pinning, its bound to fail eventually, so yes
 

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If you can reliably do it, like Tau can, pinning can be huge (markerlights lowering leadership combined with pulse carbines). Your assault never hits home if you're pinned, and you're just stuck taking shots.
 

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The problem arises from another front. It's not the high leadership you should be worried about, it's simply that the majority of armies that you really, really, need to pin are fearless and immune to pinning.

Chaos, Bugs, or Orks (I believe) rampaging toward your lines? Eldar (or any other) in vehicles hurtling straight for you? Pinning weapons won't do you a bit of good.

Don't get me wrong. I really like sniper rifles, mortars, and other barrage weapons, but I'll not base a significant portion of my army design on a tactic that works not at all on two thirds of my most common opponents. I do include those weapons, and get tickled when they succeed at pinning a unit, but I won't rely on a failed leadership roll (when one can be taken).
 

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This whole post lead me to taking a whirlwind in my force. :tongue: But the point about being immune to pinning is a significant one.

What forces can pinned? its been a while since i even considered using pinning.
 

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By the way its been a while since i used ordinance, do whirlwinds need line of sight, i can't seem to pin point it in the rule book so page would be good.
 

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For what it's worth, whirlwinds are useful vehicles regardless of the pinning. As Hesp has said, it's really not something to bank an entire strategy on, but it's quite useful when it does happen. A similar effect is Entanglement, and the turn that it slows an assault can oftentimes drastically change the outcome of a game-- and that works on Fearless and high leadership units. Far better to base a strategy against a mechanized army on jumping them the turn that they're entangled.

Barrage weapons do tend to have a minimum range though-- something to keep in mind. Generally, I park a whirlwind somewhere out of line of sight and out of the line of fire, and leave it undefended. Hopefully, the enemy will ignore it since it's so out of the way. It being out of the main battle line also helps with the minimum range issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The point is that barrage weapons mean that you can plant a blast template on top of your enemies unit, without exposing yourself to enemy fire, you can use this as a phsycological attack, as well as a physical one.your opponant may make mistakes because he's focusing on the pounding his troops are getting. Pinning is simply a bonus
 

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Instead of asking what armies/units can be pinned, lets look at those that cannot (the list is shorter).

Chaos cults cannot be pinned. Each one of the 4 is fearless. I don't think Harlequins can be pinned (not sure). Tyranid monstrous creatures cannot be pinned. Eldar Wrairthlord and wraithguard cannot be pinned. Vehicles cannot be pinned. Can necrons be pinned? How many fearless armies/units are there?

After this list (which I am sure is not all encompassing), is pinning actually worhth it?
 

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I'd say the units you can actually pin with any regularity is pretty small. Maybe IG and Orcs. Tau sometimes. Same with all the other LD 8 forces. CSM and Astartes...it'll be rare.

It's like Tank Shock...how often does THAT work?

IMO pinning and anything like it that depends on LD is a side effect, not really much of a tactic. I wish it were otherwise...it would be more realistic to have the focus of fire to pin down units as well as kill them...but pinning is pretty doggone rare.
 

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Pinning will come into it's own as a tactic when Codex Ruinous Powers comes out. If it has LaTD, then we will see pinning weapons combined with Slaanesh LD modifiers to take down astartes and the like. Be thankful that Chaos cannot get sniper weapons. A slaanesh army with sniper weapons would be nasty.
 

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I wish tankshock depended on the front armour... something like 'You take a leadership test at Front Armour Value minus 10.' Then you could have pretty regular tankshock from scary things like Land Raiders but don't have to worry about rhinos. Also, LD and T stats seem to go hand in hand. The higher the one, the higher the other. So it seems to work that higher T guys would be less afraid of getting hit with a Rhino but would still be afraid of a Land Raider. Also, I think Ld should never be allowed to drop below 2.
 

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I think overall GW has kind of ignored pinning, every army seems to ignore it some way or another, without even making an army to resistant to it.
 

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If your currently playing as an imperial guard army then don't over look taking a mortar support team. I know what your thinking, their ugly and uninspiring, the points used for them could go toward some masssive tank or officer killing machine. BUT, in all my recent games my single mortar team has been responsible for causing more havoc than either one of my two Leman Russ's. I play against Eldar mostly, and am usually out classed on every part of the battlefield, but my mortar team has the advantage of being out of sight while dispensing death, it must be said that i nearly always hit the target, and the salvo firing helps. never target powerful units or single characters, you best off hitting units like guardian squads, they get no save and a big S4 hit. In one game my opponate was so eager to get his guradians into shuriken range that he packed em all together, 9 died as a result.

Their also great at "thinning" squads out, just chipping away at units like Dire Avengers or Howling Banshees makes them less effective when they get into range, or before you charge them. In another game one of my infantry squads was well within the Eldar players charge range with his Howling Banshees, i decided to try and thin them out so at least they'd me less attacks in CC, I managed to kill three and pin the rest, needless to say the infantry squad breathed a sigh of relief and killed the rest. And all this for 80pts and from behind a building.

:pull:
Mortars love I em as you say you can hide yet fire on the heads of thine enemy!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
my motars did it again, played last night and my mortars managed to pin a full guardian squad long enough for me to get my troops in rapid fire range, plus they yet again inflicted serious loss on the enemies Howling banshees, slowing them up and again pinning them. Mortars, best weapon the IG's got.
 
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