Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok, so the thread title is pretty vague. This is a "help me out" and a "rate me" thread.

--------DISCLAIMER-------
THIS ARMY CONTAINS FEMALE SPACE MARINES. IF YOU DO NOT APPROVE OF FEMALE SPACE MARINES DO NOT COMMENT IN THIS THREAD. I DO NOT WANT A FLAME WAR.

The Phoenix Sabers: a renegade Blood Angels sub-chapter.

The basis for this chapter: Humanity has deviated from the course that the Emperor has set. The use of the Emperor as a religious icon and the Ecclesiarchy is direct opposition to the dreams of the Emperor and Sanguinius. "To be human is to be one amongst untold billions.
It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable." The Sabers seek to reverse this statement or die trying.

Basically I've built a "current state" of the chapter and I'm working on the origin story to fit. I've done my best to write my fluff in correspondence with the current 5th ed blood angels and space marine codex. I've got a lot so far, so prepare for a wall of text.


Basic information:

Status: Renegade
Homeworld: Fleet-based
Primarch: Sangiunius & -EXCOMUNICATED- (This is explained later)
Flaw: Red thirst & black rage
Ultimate goal: Crush the Ecclesiarchy and rebuild the Imperium's central goverment in the image of the Emperor's ideals... or die trying.


The current state of the Phoenix Sabers:


Having been declared renegade by holy Terra since the Age of Apostasy, the Phoenix Sabers are constantly on the run, hunted always by the Ecclesiarchy's inquisition, Witch hunters (sisters of battle) as well as various Imperial Guard Regiments and various Space Marine chapters including the Grey Knights, Black Templars, Imperial Fists, White Scars, Ultramarines, Crimson Fists and their own parent chapter, the Blood Angels. All this in addition to the general horrors of space. Eldar, orks etc.
The Legions of Chaos have taken a particular interest in the Sabers due to it's renegade status in the hopes of turning them.

In league with their ideals, the Phoenix Sabers, unless there is no other option will refuse to fight: Blood Angels, Ultramarines, and a select few sects of Tau. (The Sabers believe in the core of the greater good, but their execution is terrible)


As of 999M41, the Phoenix Sabers' full chapter is making for Baal to answer Dante's call to the Leviathan hive fleet threat. If the Sabers are not annihilated in this war, then they must escape quickly after, lest they be beset by their own brothers and purged.


Chapter Differences between the Sabers and Angels:


The Phoenix Sabers have no Reclusiam and no Death Company.

In dropping all religious ties to the Imperium of Mankind, the Blood Angels use regular apothecaries instead of sanguinary priests, however unable to forget their roots, the apothecary will still carry a vial of blood from the chapter's Red Grail.

Flagship:


Legendary Cuirass MKIII - Originally a simple battle barge under command of the founder of the Phoenix Sabers Captain Nero Ignatius before leaving the chapter, the Legendary Cuirass has been destroyed and re-built two times. Still to small to be considered a space station, yet now more powerful than most ships used by their brother Space marines. In it's third resurrection (so to speak) The Cuirass is an (almost) jury rigged mish-mash of an Imperial Battle Barge, Retribution-Class battleship, and Ark Mechanicus and a Desploiler class battleship. Almost completely unrecognizable from it's original battle barge form, since the addition of the ark mechanicus the Legendary Cuirass' power and shield have allowed the chapter to survive as long as it has as threats to the chapter continue to increase.

Age of Apostasy - Gene Seed Alterations (related to the chapter's Origin):

DNA fused into all 19 gene seed organs during initial growth and incubation stages in an attempt to use the -EXCOMMUNICATED- Primarch to erase the black rage from their own geneseed. In what can only be considered a miracle of medicine, the secondary heart, the Biscopia, the Larraman’s Organ and one of two progenoid glands successfully integrated the -EXCOMMUNICATED- Primarch’s DNA with that of Sanguinius’ DNA used within the gene-seed organs. The other organs rejected the DNA and subsequently died. No attempts at re-creating this process were successful. Too many attempts led to the near extinction of the Saber's betcher’s gland. As a result, this gland is omitted from the gene-seed implantation process. The -EXCOMMUNICATED- Primarch's DNA, along with unsuccessful gene-seed tests to eliminate the Red Thirst allowed the gene seed to be implanted into female marines, though the process is more arduous for females since their physiology differs slightly from Male marines. Since the gene seed is still over 50% male female marines have a longer implantation process and require far more training, nearly double that of a male marine, however the implants allow them to serve the chapter longer.

Phoenix Sabers still succumb to the red thirst. Despite an integration with the boy’s DNA, Sabers still part take in the Sanguine ritual and have no gene seed alterations to any of the additional organs to the brain, however due to the mental exercises created by the -EXCOMMUNICATED-, Sabers have a stronger will than their founding battle brothers against it, but it is far from infallible. If the mentality of a fellow battle brother goes untrained, he will lose all sanity on the battlefield and instantly succumb to the black rage and die on the battlefield. As a result the Phoenix Sabers chapter does not have a death company. Because of the mental exercises, brothers of the Phoenix’ psychic abilities increase at a rate faster than other Space Marine Chapters, however because of their need to hold back the red thirst and black rage these Marines very rarely have the ability to use their power for anything else, but to keep a hold on their genetic flaw. Each Phoenix brother keeps another brother’s mental stability in check, creating deeper bond and harmony between each of the brothers of the Phoenix. Due to this, the Phoenix Sabers only have two librarians and a single Chief Librarian.


Recruitment, Supplies, Scripts and Tecnology:

Fleet based chapter, resupply and recruitment – As a fleet based chapter, the Pheoenix sabers are constantly on the run from the inquisition and chapters under the control of the ecclesiarchy. As a result, their in a constant need of supplies, repair and recruitment. While several battle barges and the Legendary Cuirass MKIII contain manufactorums, materials are always somewhat scarce. Food and water can be easily grown or processed on the barges themselves, but men and metal is scarce. Sometimes asteroids are mined for resources if there are no friendly worlds, other times they are bought through underground channels. Sometimes they are traded or even given from liberated systems or systems friendly to the Saber’s chapter as they dart about all over the galaxy. Recruitment is done similarly, a few days are set aside to pick recruits or volunteers. Many whom are not deemed worthy of Space Marine training are relinquished to become chapter serfs or on rare occasions returned to their homeworld. On extremely rare occasions renegade Space Marines or Adepta Sororitias will be assimilated into the chapter. Sabers have no preference of origin, simply a commonality in the cause. Various races and genders are found within the Phoenix Sabers Chapter as a result of this.

Scripts and technology – Severed from the resources of the Imperium, the Phoenix Sabers have to rely completely on themselves for their own technical abilities and knowledge stores. Many tenants and doctrines were lost in the commandeering of the Legendary Cuirass, as such their librarium is quite small, many doctrines of their organization and system is lost, having to been rebuilt from either memories or re-created completely from scratch. As a result, the entire Phoenix Sabers’ fleet has become something of a democratic commonwealth, with it’s own set of laws etc. Thankfully due to the survival of the Codex Astartes, military organization of the Chapter itself remains generally unchanged, simply at a reduced size of 600 battle brothers, the 6thcompany containing the initiate scouts and 1st company containing the veterans.

With technology knowledge in short supply, the techmarines and chapter armourers take great pains to reverse-engineer all weapons and tech as they possibly can in order to maintain par with the Imperium. In some cases they surpass the Imperium slightly and fall short in others. Their plasma weapons, as an example, burn hotter and are sometimes more unstable than the Imperium’s plasma weapons. On the flipside, melta weapons are more accurate and in often cases more devastating than that of the Imperium’s. Additionally as a blood Angel’s successor, the Phoenix Sabers have access to the Blood Angel’s modifications originally taken from Baal, such as Baal predators, Stormraven gunships and flight information to deep strike Land raiders. However, due to a lack of resources and tanks, Phoenix Sabers generally field less armour. Compensation is reflected in their combat tactics.


Current Organization and Company information:

Chapter Master: Keno Murasame
Chief Librarian: Raphael Ideaus
Chief Apothecary: Serphrian Morgan
Keeper of the Sanguinary Guard: Veritas Halberd
Master of the Forge: Ken Kajiya (*Note: Blood Angels codex has no master of the forge unit, this is simply for fluff reasons)
Phoenix (Blood) Champion: Freya Galactus (female champion)
1st Company Captain - Ryder Vipus - "Flaming Blades"
2nd Company Captain - Ruthe Victoria (female captain) - "Swords of Blood"
3rd Company Captain - Alexis Shimeon - "Martyrs of Mankind"
4th Company Captain - Aelia Damiel (full female company) - "Angels of Fire"
5th Company Captain - Ariko Hikouken - "Bloodied Guard"
6th Company Captain -Yumi Karyudo (female captain) - "Ashes of the Phoenix"

Freya Galactus – Phoenix Champion (Current):

Originally a chapter serf deemed unworthy for initiate training, found herself pressed into combat during a decisive battle of the Commandeering of the Battle Barge Legendary Cuirass MKII, led a resistance of initiates and ship crew, liberating the techmarines, librarians and apothecaries captured in the initial chaos coup. Despite being unable to retake the barge, the resistance managed to allow the dwindling loyalist astartes on board to escape as well as many of the crew and serfs, including herself. After the destruction of the Cuirass, Chapter Master Murasame allowed her into the initiate training. Freya rose quickly through the ranks, reaching the rank of sergeant within 150 years and entered the first company in another 50 years. Fighting side by side with the Chapter Master and saving his life on a number of occasions, Freya Galactus was admitted to the Sabers Honour Guard. Her ferocity in battle impressed that of the current honour guard. With the death of Blaine Styphus at the hands of the Grey Knights during the battle of Rousten II. Freya Galactus was nominated as Blood Champion (altered to Phoenix Champion) of the Sabers Honour guard. Her knowledge of Combat and tactics is enough to rival that of the Chapter Master himself.


One last piece I wouldn't mind being critiqued, the origin of the Chapter Master's weapon, Kusanagi Adustum:

Literal meaning Sword of the burning heavens, was originally a blade was made during the Horus Heresy modeled after Sanguinius’ own Blade Encarmine. It said to be the blade of one of the lost Primarchs during Horus Heresy. After the Heresy, it was lost in the warp to the forces of Chaos. It was recovered five thousand years later during the Age of Apostasy, barely recognizable after 5 millennia of use the blade itself almost in ruins was repaired and re-forged into it’s current form and given it’s current name. It was given to the Blood Angels, only to be found that none could use it as more than a simple combat blade. Thought to be the taint of Chaos, the blade was locked away in a sacred archive on Terra with other documents and relics from the Horus Heresy. During his pilgrimage Captain Nero Ignatius discovered the lost archive and obtained the blade along with his documents written by Sanguinius himself. The blade was used during Captain Ignatius' escape from Terra where it’s power was used for the first time in nearly six thousand years, activated by reading the combination of the -EXCOMMUNICATED- Primarch DNA within. Since then, it has been said that the Kusanagi chooses the Chapter Master, one who follow’s the strongest ideals of the Emperor, for not every Chapter Master candidate was able to wield the blade. The Kusanagi Adustum has since been passed to each succession of Chapter Masters to lead them to truth and the resurrection of a free and peaceful mankind.


Ok now that I've got all the main fluff I've created so far, I'm going to go and list bits and pieces of the origin fluff I have so far. These aren't that great as well as being incomplete, which is why I'm turning to the Heresy online community for a bit of help.

The structure is as follows:

M36 - Age of Apostasy:

Blood Angels Captain Nero Ignatius is finishing a mission in the veiled region when he's attacked by Chaos.

The Blood Angels are pushed back. During a Chaos push, A warp gate opens up, throwing a man into the blood angel ranks.

The man asks if he can join the fight, draws his own sword and dives headfirst into the combat. After a day, the Blood Angels regain lost territory and have re-established their battle line.

Captain Ignatius has a chance to speak with the man, where he learns of his home and ideals of technology for the betterment of humankind. This reminds the Captain of Sanguinius and the Emperor. The man then asks if he could speak with either Sangiunius or the Emperor. (I'd like to add more to this section, but I'm unsure as to how to proceed. I'd like to address serious aspects of the imperium, like xenophobia and war)

The next sortie, Captain Ignatius allows the man to lead a squad of Assault marines in addition to taking to the field himself. The man's fighting prowess and incredible combat ability amazes the Blood Angels.

The battle continues and Captain Ignatius and the man find themselves facing a greater demon of Khorne. During the battle Nero succumbs to the red thirst and soon finds himself in the grip of the greater demon.

I have a bit of the next section actually written:
"The Greater Daemon raised his own sword to deliver a final blow to Nero. He had the Captain in his grip, crushing the life from his body but at the last moment the man threw a ball of fire, striking the Daemon in side the face, forcing the Greater Daemon to drop the Captain. In a flash, the man dashes to the Daemon and repeatedly slashes at him with an almost eye un-catchable speed, before giving a final strike, severing the Greater Daemon’s head from his body. As the life faded from the eyes of the Chaos Daemon, a Chaos Marine took aim at the man with a plasma gun and fired. The Captain, jumped in the way and caught the plasma bolt in his fist, saving the man. As the Captain grabbed the bolt in his hand, the magnetic field dissipated scattering burning gasses over the Captain’s face, destroying one of his eyes"


With the greater demon dead, the remaining chaos forces scatter. In the Apothecarium, the man inquires Nero about the red thirst and learns of the ultimate fate of every blood angel. Unwilling to allow these new found friends to die in such a wretched way, the man develops extreme mental exercises with Nero to help keep the black rage at bay. They must be maintained daily in order to hold back the red thirst. This is only a temporary solution.


Codicers show Nero ancient records of a lost primarch. After slaying a greater demon single handed, the belief sparks that the man may indeed be a lost primarch. A section of raw DNA is secretly extracted from him, but before learning of the man's origin he leaps into the warp and vanishes.

At some point here, he takes a lascannon to the chest and has his progenoid gland replaced with one of the newly grown ones using the man's DNA.

My origin fluff pretty much ends here. Nero makes a pilgrimage to Terra and finds the lost archive. After scouring the documents, Nero decides to confront the
Ecclesiarchy and is deemed renegade. The Grey Knights attempt to assassinate him, but he escapes with the help of the Kusanagi Adustum. From here, he leaves the Blood Angels with his remaining loyal marines and forms the Phoenix sabers, vowing that mankind will be resurrected into the ideal of the Emperor.



My Chapter Master also has no origin story currently, but I'm working on that myself. I'll update it to the thread when I'm done with it.

You might be asking: If I have a big structure like this, why do I need help?
While I do have a complete structure formed, I'm having a lot of trouble fleshing out most of the origin story, partially because there's some conflicts that I'm not sure how to get around, but also because not all the warhammer 40k fluff is always clear. Things are always being debated, one source says one thing, while another source says something different, etc. Any help would be appreciated.

I'd like to be able to make a "Phoenix Sabers Fluff codex" for fun, which is why I want to put things into as much detail as possible.

I'm still working on victory and defeat sections.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,559 Posts
I have no issue with Female Marines, although such a key change to the fluff makes it hard to work out exactly which areas of existing fluff would change as well.

The areas of your background that are fleshed out seem internally consistent; the references to mixed SM organs are certainly a good macguffin to have female SMs and keep most of the background.

My real issue is that the warp-jumping Primarch that is used to make the mixed organs is the least believable part of the story as it adds a slightly high fantasy feel to the grimdark. It might sit better if the genetic material was from a crashed Primarch pod instead of the Primarch himself. The exercises could then come from a greater unconscious understanding of how to control one's own mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I have no issue with Female Marines, although such a key change to the fluff makes it hard to work out exactly which areas of existing fluff would change as well.

The areas of your background that are fleshed out seem internally consistent; the references to mixed SM organs are certainly a good macguffin to have female SMs and keep most of the background.

My real issue is that the warp-jumping Primarch that is used to make the mixed organs is the least believable part of the story as it adds a slightly high fantasy feel to the grimdark. It might sit better if the genetic material was from a crashed Primarch pod instead of the Primarch himself. The exercises could then come from a greater unconscious understanding of how to control one's own mind.
I like where you're going with that, but I feel like it doesn't quite fit with where the main point of the origin. It's not just having two primarchs and a resistance against the thirst, but rather a change in the chapters ideals. Most space marine chapters (Dark Angels and Blood Angels in particular) are very self-obsessed. In the origin of the Phoenix sabers I want to take the passion for their Primarchs and Emperor and turn it to the betterment of humanity, rather than living in the past.

One thing that I didn't exclusively draw attention to (difficult in a big post like that) is that it's never actually confirmed that this man from the warp is actually an excommunicated primarch and is only described as a man (though incredibly wise, a good fighter and can throw fire to boot) but his abilities and his ideals, regardless of what he is or is not changes this blood angels company for the better, causing them to break off from their parent chapter to do something bigger and better for humankind.

my excommunicated (may or may not be) primarch doesn't have to sway them all with a cunning speech, merely plant the ideal in Captain Ignatius' mind. He makes a pilgrimage to Holy Terra and confirms this by finding some lost documents from the heresy.

That being said, in what ways might I change the introduction of this "man" I find it's more believable to have him earn the respect of the Captain (and his blood angels) and having a meaningful conversation about humanity's quality of life rather than finding a simple note.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,559 Posts
I agree that the change in mindset is easier if he actually has a conversation instead of getting odd feelings after implantation.

I think it is the actual appearing out of the Warp and vanishing back that feels wrong rather than people thinking he might be a Primarch; as a suggestion you could have a bright light spill around a building/corner/hill before he comes charging in from that direction, then have him disappear from a closed room (possibly during an unexplained sensor failure). This, for me, would keep more of his mystery.

Or you could keep it as is: 40K is suitably epic so it can stand a super-heroic character appearing and disappearing.

Something that might be worth checking out for stories/possible allies is the minor Inquisition faction Seculos Attendous who seek to weaken the current religious tyranny return the Imperium to the secular enlightenment that was the Emperor's (alleged) intention.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I agree that the change in mindset is easier if he actually has a conversation instead of getting odd feelings after implantation.

I think it is the actual appearing out of the Warp and vanishing back that feels wrong rather than people thinking he might be a Primarch; as a suggestion you could have a bright light spill around a building/corner/hill before he comes charging in from that direction, then have him disappear from a closed room (possibly during an unexplained sensor failure). This, for me, would keep more of his mystery.

Or you could keep it as is: 40K is suitably epic so it can stand a super-heroic character appearing and disappearing.

Something that might be worth checking out for stories/possible allies is the minor Inquisition faction Seculos Attendous who seek to weaken the current religious tyranny return the Imperium to the secular enlightenment that was the Emperor's (alleged) intention.
Hmm... I don't see that much of a difference between someone being thrown from the warp and magically appearing in a burst of light, but I'll admit I never thought much about the "mysterious" aspect of his introduction. My mind was more on trying to make things fit with the current fluff so I don't get harped on for inconsistencies. It's something I can play around with.

Not much on the Seculos Attendous but, Bingo! That gave me a nice idea for my Captain's confrontation of Holy Terra. They'll make a good ally in the escape from the execution grounds.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,559 Posts
Hmm... I don't see that much of a difference between someone being thrown from the warp and magically appearing in a burst of light....
My thought was that if he leaps form a portal it is obvious that he came from the Warp, whereas if he walks over a hill just after a bright flash comes from the other side then it is not proven that he came from the Warp.

It is not a real issue as it is; I just like stories where it is not definite that what someone says is objectively true.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
My thought was that if he leaps form a portal it is obvious that he came from the Warp, whereas if he walks over a hill just after a bright flash comes from the other side then it is not proven that he came from the Warp.

It is not a real issue as it is; I just like stories where it is not definite that what someone says is objectively true.
Oh, I see what you're getting at. The reason I picked coming from the warp though, is that if you take a look at most of the loyal primarchs who are "missing" They all disappeared into the warp at some point. It makes it more believable that he might be a primarch if he came from the warp, after all two of the primarchs are excommunicated and so their fate is unknown. If one (or both) remained loyal, then they also could have dived headfirst into the warp.
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top