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Is the audience of warhammer 40k becoming more or less grimdark?

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It used to be more Dark not Doom laden, kinda different things. Right now the fluff is very Doom laden but not very Dark.

People call Space Marines, Space Nazi's for a reason, and that reason was the background in 2nd ed, in 5th Space Marines are lot more reasonable, pretty much better humans then some sort of inhuman killing machines with scant regard for human life.

Aramoro
 

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What is that founded on? I mean, the Golden Throne failing is pretty dark.
Yeah, what Amaroro said.

Tbh, that's news to me about the golden throne, though not surprising (i've been away from the hobby for a good 10 years). The fundamentalist attitude of the imperium can't be too easy a concept to swallow for new fans of the game, it's got to be a subtle move away from that. Having been away from the hobby and now coming back, the whole feel of the thing just seems just a little bit less dark.
 

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Let me just quote something that is in the start of every single one of the 40k novels, last paragraph

"To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable"

If you ask me.. its not quite dark enough, In the Grim Darkness of the 41st millineum there is no peace, there is only war! and that is the way we like it baby! With you keep rabbiting on about your idea, the hobby would really suck afterwards..
"So what army are you collecting now?"
"none, its all peaceful, so I'm collecting the space marine flower arranging group"
 

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" I'm collecting the space marine flower arranging group"
yes, also known as the rainbow warriors, i mean what sort of name is that, rainbow warriors. Forces of evil "oh no, they have sent the Astartes run, oh, wait they are called rainbow warriors. stay " cue the multicoloured space marines skipping in to the tune of My little Pony.
but back on topic, i think it is grimdark enough as it is, if it were any more so, it would cause an influx of emos, goths and others and mass exodus of people who simply enjoy it as a hobby,and not a religion.
 

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I find the lack of new campaings or aftermaths of event like the current Armegeddon, or better yet the 13th BC, is fukin shity. Why should I care about these events when nothing comes out of them? Why should I care about BL books if there is no Progressive storyline. Why Introduce a new race when theres no room for it in the current plots. What do you mean the new race had a battle with Eldard? hes dead? Fukin Lame GW. Comic Books even get with the times, change is inevitable, adapt or fade out of buissness.

I think the mood can remain dark, but not so dark as everything I do does not matter. That leaves no motivation or intrest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I am not asking about your personal opinions.

What I am asking about is what the other fans of 40k seem to be like. When you talk to new players, are they more or less grimdark?
 

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I am not asking about your personal opinions.

What I am asking about is what the other fans of 40k seem to be like. When you talk to new players, are they more or less grimdark?
Well the guys I know either look at it as a game with a good setting and background (majority), or see it as a long, hard fight, but the Emperor shall prevail (minority; and yeah, they play Imperials, surprisingly). As for me, I'm pretty glad that Big E is dying, I just wish my lads could get there and give him the final push he needs, so its not at all grimdark for the Chaos Marines methinks. Hell, its our universe, drowned in chaos, deceit and carnage! :laugh:

But to keep up with the other train of thought we've got here, I think the whole 40K world is getting less and less grimdark, because wherever the SPESS MUHREENS show up they win ('cept for Kaurava, but the IG still pretty much cleaned up the place, so its barely different), and not because they have anything to call a brain, since we all know that Space Marines are incompatible with delicate and intricate plans, they just run over your ass like some intergalactic train with ten deffrollas made of TH/SS Assault Terminators. And us, heretics and xenos, feel like we're the villains of a Looney Tunes cartoon: try hard and fail hard. Come on, think of it, isn't Abaddon exactly like the Coyote? Isn't Ahriman like Sylvester? Its just mean. :(
 

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I am not asking about your personal opinions.

What I am asking about is what the other fans of 40k seem to be like. When you talk to new players, are they more or less grimdark?
when I talk to new players they usually have no opinion on the setting of 40k, as it would involve reading and speaking in a language people can understand and translate, two tasks too laborious for todays generation of 40k players (and todays generation in general, afterall reading isn't cool, and why talk english when you can text gibberish) that I have had the misfortune to come across, so they have no opinion or at least don't really have a valid one to make.
 

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There's an interesting point everyone is missing. Grimdark setting means is Grimdark for everyone, no only the Imperium. So, it doesn't mean the imperuim dies a painful and slow death and all other races rejoy. It means NO happy ending for EVERYONE. Of course this can involve various degrees of failure, be it an endless war no side winning at all or a much complex scenario in which for example:

1. The Emperor dies, the Imperium too
2. Tau loose everything, and become a fledling race
3. Eldar just vanish from the universe, one sin at a time.
4. Necrons, well, choose your "happy ending" for them, say... they rust themselves to death
5. Orks, same as the imperium but with more violence
6. Chaos, the eye of terror vanishes, leaving them trapped in the Warp. This could be the most malicious ending for them.
7. Tyranids, eat themselves to death

I think the game is as grimdark as it can be. And I think everyone involved in the game wants their side to win, which isn't Grimdark at all (from their point of view). So there's some kind of contradiction in the grimdarkness of the game. But I think it's this dichotomy what makes this game such a great hobby.
 

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But to keep up with the other train of thought we've got here, I think the whole 40K world is getting less and less grimdark, because wherever the SPESS MUHREENS show up they win ('cept for Kaurava, but the IG still pretty much cleaned up the place, so its barely different), and not because they have anything to call a brain, since we all know that Space Marines are incompatible with delicate and intricate plans, they just run over your ass like some intergalactic train with ten deffrollas made of TH/SS Assault Terminators. And us, heretics and xenos, feel like we're the villains of a Looney Tunes cartoon: try hard and fail hard. Come on, think of it, isn't Abaddon exactly like the Coyote? Isn't Ahriman like Sylvester? Its just mean. :(
I don't think that the Xeno's fail like Looney Tunes villains but Choas for sure.

In the current fluff there are instances of the "SPESS MUHREENS" losing, they even mention a few in the current codex like the Damnos Incident, and the World Engine. Also you have the shattering of the Crimson Fits and you have the Purging of Contqual, where the Iron Hands just killed 1 in ever 3 people in the sector just to prove a point. PlanetStrike also contains a number of senerios where the Imperium gets smashed.

Reading this thread it gives me the feeling that if GW released codex's for Aliens and Xeno that had their battle stories of them, Crushing the Imperium at every opportunity, and showing the "SPESS MUHREENS" getting spanked in every fight then people would be calling 40k "More Grim Dark."
 

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In the current fluff there are instances of the "SPESS MUHREENS" losing, they even mention a few in the current codex like the Damnos Incident, and the World Engine. Also you have the shattering of the Crimson Fits and you have the Purging of Contqual, where the Iron Hands just killed 1 in ever 3 people in the sector just to prove a point. PlanetStrike also contains a number of senerios where the Imperium gets smashed.
See? You've read about it in books, because you were interested in the lore. However, to the ignorant the Imperium, though sorrounded by foes on all sides, will prevail, thanks to the might of the Space Marines, because thats what keeps being used to death everywhere thats even marginally related to 40K. And thats making 40K less grimdark.

Not that I think its going to happen, but I'd be more than satisfied and the 40K world would be much more grimdark if the Emperor died and ascended, but in the meantime the majority of the Imperium fell apart and its systems were either conquered by hostile forces, or the local Space Marine chapter took over and rule like kings. And thus the Second Great Crusade was born, with the Imperium crippled but defiant and ascendent; Chaos forces spill out of the Eye of Terror but get stuck in with the rampaging Orks; Dark Eldar pirate activities increase rapidly, only to provoke the wrath of their Craftworld brethren; the Tau and the Necron leap at the suddenly easy prey, but become prey themselves when the Tyranid Hive Fleets fall upon them like the hammer of an angry god. The 42nd Millenium sees a war-torn galaxy drowning in its own blood.
 

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More Grimdark, it seems. Isn't this the first rulebook where in the main fluff they've said that the Golden Throne is breaking for good as the forty-first millennium draws to a close?

In the mmo I bet it will be less grimdark though, and have a "good guys" and "bad guys" alliance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
In the mmo I bet it will be less grimdark though, and have a "good guys" and "bad guys" alliance.
I really hope that is the case. :) I know none of you do, but I like good vs evil. Why am I into 40k then? I also like SOME grimness, sci-fi, big armies, and factions.
 

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See? You've read about it in books, because you were interested in the lore. However, to the ignorant the Imperium, though sorrounded by foes on all sides, will prevail, thanks to the might of the Space Marines, because thats what keeps being used to death everywhere thats even marginally related to 40K. And thats making 40K less grimdark.
The information comes from the codex's though, not any of the novels by BL. I just glanced into my SM codex to get those stores. If anything is making it less Grimdark it's not GW, but the reaction of players to fluff that is being presented in all pro imperium codex's, as thats what has generally been coming out. If we had seen nothing but Choas, Dark Elder, Orks, Nids, and Necrons in codex releases humanity wouldn't be looking to good I'd wager.
 

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I've worked it out.

Can't have a grimdark tabletop wargame whilst there's an actual war on terror going on. Under the current pollitical situation we all need the good guys to be a little more 'good'. Can't have the SMs running around, organized like a terrorist cell group, split into small 'chapters' so that if one falls it doesn't take the rest with them, they're the good guys, right? Don't forget GW was founded in the UK in the early to mid 80's when we had Maggie Thatcher as PM which, by all accounts was incredibly grimdark (think dubyah backed up with a cold calculating intelligence and you're getting close).


Disclaimer: Under no account should this post be taken as serious
 
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