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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Heya,

I've got into an argument during my last game with a friend. I've done some quick searches both on Heresy and googlewide without finding anything. Should I have missed something obvious then please direct me there.

The issue at hand regards a Battlewagon (or any transport really) loaded with a Big Mek and a unit of whatever that can shoot. For the sake of argument, say that the transport hasn't moved because it's immobilized. During the shooting phase I want my Big Mek to use his Mek's Tools to repair the vehicle (sacrificing the model's eventual shooting attack), but wanting the unit he automatically is joined to inside the wagon to fire at an enemy.

Now my friend argues that since the Big Mek is joined with the other unit in the transport, they must therefore pick the same target. Which means that when I use the Big Mek's repair ability, it's the friendly transport that is the unit's target and can therefore not fire at any other unit. I disagree.

Can't find anything definitive in the rulebook under Independent Character, Shooting nor vehicles, neither under the Mek's Tools rule in the codex.

Help a fellow out?
 

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A big Meks repair ability replaces his shooting attack, it does not count as a shooting attack. As the repair is not an attack, it isn't targeting an enemy unit, (you cannot target a friendly unit during your own shooting phase unless it says specifically that you can.)
If he is't targeting an enemy unit in the shooting phase then any models he is attached to can fire at what they want to, (obviously without the big mek adding in his shots.) Your friend is wrong.
 

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Heya,

I've got into an argument during my last game with a friend. I've done some quick searches both on Heresy and googlewide without finding anything. Should I have missed something obvious then please direct me there.

The issue at hand regards a Battlewagon (or any transport really) loaded with a Big Mek and a unit of whatever that can shoot. For the sake of argument, say that the transport hasn't moved because it's immobilized. During the shooting phase I want my Big Mek to use his Mek's Tools to repair the vehicle (sacrificing the model's eventual shooting attack), but wanting the unit he automatically is joined to inside the wagon to fire at an enemy.

Now my friend argues that since the Big Mek is joined with the other unit in the transport, they must therefore pick the same target. Which means that when I use the Big Mek's repair ability, it's the friendly transport that is the unit's target and can therefore not fire at any other unit. I disagree.

Can't find anything definitive in the rulebook under Independent Character, Shooting nor vehicles, neither under the Mek's Tools rule in the codex.

Help a fellow out?
I think you just found one of those holes in the rules. He is not shooting, but he does it during the shooting phase. It could probably be argued both ways pretty convincingly. Technically, he doesn't pick a target. Technically, he does.
 

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That's how I would play it, but it is pretty gray.
No gray at all. Totally black and white, cut and dry and shut and sealed.

The shooting attack of the Mek is REPLACED by the repair ability. It is not a special shooting attack or any type of attack anyone can think of. If it isn't an attack it isn't targeting anything. If it isn't targeting anything then the rest of the unit can target what it wants too. It is an separate action that is done during the shooting phase which does not make it shooting.

Take a psychic power for example. If you had a librarian attached to a squad of marines and the libby used a power that wasn't a shooting attack but was triggered during that phase, would the rest of his attached squad be able to shoot at a mob of orks 10 inches away? The answer is yes. The same thing is happening with the Mek and his repair ability.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think Unforgiven gives some valid points and I especially like the parallell with psychic powers that aren't shooting attacks. But then again I was inclined to believe so in the first place, so my own opinion doesn't matter.

Anyone got something solid that suggests my friend being the correct one?
 

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Take a psychic power for example. If you had a librarian attached to a squad of marines and the libby used a power that wasn't a shooting attack but was triggered during that phase, would the rest of his attached squad be able to shoot at a mob of orks 10 inches away? The answer is yes. The same thing is happening with the Mek and his repair ability.
That makes sense. Didn't know about that. The only example I could think of was the tervigon's onslaught and that one is a shooting psychic attack, so it didn't fit well.
 

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(you cannot target a friendly unit during your own shooting phase unless it says specifically that you can.)
Why not? Is there any rule that prevents it? (point to where if that is true I do not have rulebook on my person atm)
 

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Why not? Is there any rule that prevents it? (point to where if that is true I do not have rulebook on my person atm)
Page 16, first sentence under CHECK LINE OF SIGHT & PICK A TARGET.
A firing unit can pick a single enemy unit that is not locked in combat as its target,
That, basically.

Anyway, Unforgiven is right, and frankly I'm not sure how anyone thought anything but that.
It doesn't say it's a special shooting attack, it says he does the repair INSTEAD of shooting.

Same thing as the Warp Spider Jump Pack thing in the Assault phase.
It says INSTEAD of Assaulting, there is absolutely nothing to indicate it shares a similarity with the thing it's replacing.
 

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Page 16, first sentence under CHECK LINE OF SIGHT & PICK A TARGET.


That, basically.

Anyway, Unforgiven is right, and frankly I'm not sure how anyone thought anything but that.
It doesn't say it's a special shooting attack, it says he does the repair INSTEAD of shooting.

Same thing as the Warp Spider Jump Pack thing in the Assault phase.
It says INSTEAD of Assaulting, there is absolutely nothing to indicate it shares a similarity with the thing it's replacing.
Thank you. :biggrin:
 
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