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Bruva I am hit!
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Discussion Starter #1
Over the last few years and the last few releases, we have seen a growing number of "giant robot"-type monstrous creatures enter many armies - Grey Knights' Nemesis Dreadknights, Tau Riptide Battlesuits, Eldar Wraithknights, and most recently, the Space Marine Centurions. But these four armies already possess options for walkers - Dreadnoughts, Wraithlords, and Crisis/Broadside/Hazard suits, so what gives? Is it because of a perceived ineffectiveness of these walkers that these new MC Walkers are being released?

I'm sure this is a question with an obscenely simple answer, but nevertheless, I am interested in seeing what people think of the situation. I am very green when it comes to TT crunch, so any help is appreciated.
 

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For da money's
I wondered the same with grav guns, just why?
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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Money pure and simple, it's the "ohhhh shiny" factor GW was going for (and while they achieved withe Wraith Knight and to a certain extent with the Riptide they failed miserably with the Dreadknight and Centurions imho). None of the armies needed them.
 

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blahblahblahblah
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GW don't create things for game balance, or to fill gaps, they create things for 1 purpose, money, you take a kit which costs £10 in production costs and charge £50 for it, and you get money
 

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Stella Cadente said:
you take a kit which costs £10 in production costs and charge £50 for it, and you get money
Sure the one kit costs $10 to produce, but the mold costs and easy $10k, and the machine another $45k (cause your likely not gonna buy used), plus the space requirment, and the training/installation, and the energy cost. Initially, and likely talking in the first year given GW's international market, that high price tag is to offset the initial cost of the new unit; its not all profit right away no matter how you want to slice it. I'm sure adding in the grav weapons to the tactical squad kit alone cost them a couple grand per mold (since the mold might have to be redesigned.)


As for why the big walkers? Well the wraithknight is just a bigger wraithlord for the most part, the riptide was just the next logical step for the Tau, centurions aren't really big walkers just slightly bigger exosuits that go on top of regular armour, and the dreadknight is beyond me.

Also more money, because they are fairly, if pricey, useful units for the most part.
 

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blahblahblahblah
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Yeah, that's why GW charge £50 for a model when other companies (who have to do the exact same thing) charge £15, bullshit I say.
 

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But the suits arent fluffy at all, which is what peeves off me, centurions are apparently for close quarters *cough termies cough*
wraith lord was big in all but model size- the wraith knight took the biscuit, and it's not even true wraith, it's more in line with the titans as it as a living pilot.
Riptide, everyone wanted a bigger suit, but it takes away the crisis plasma suits thunder in every possible way, and the new ionhead wouldve done the job fine, but less OP
Dreadknight, meh

Anything else?
 

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Maybe GW thought Manga and the Hollywood films have loads of giant mecha robots and they are just jumping on the band wagon.

That and the monies. Make every collector buy a £50 model and watch the pennies flood in.
 

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Dazed and confused.
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Money is the driving factor, of course, but there is also the need for evolution of the races. If the new codexes came out with no new units in them we'd be giving out as well. It's always nice to see updated models for old units, but new units must be added to armies to keep them fresh and interesting. And to add new units the only way to go was bigger, as pretty much every other niche was filled.

Yes there are bigger robots than ever, but we've also seen the introduction of flyers as well. Both have added a new dimension to the game, for good or ill, and IMO anything that moves the system forward and stops it stagnating is a good thing.

But yes, it's primarily about the money.
 

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blahblahblahblah
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If they want the game to move forward they need to abandon the D6 dice matrix.

But hell I have choices, I can spend £50 on a giant toy robot, or on 5 1/48th tanks, which I can get allot more enjoyment from and are much better quality.
 

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A company that produces a product that it believes will make it money, well who'd have thought it?
 

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nice boy, daft though !
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Thing is GW havent suddenly started loving giant robots, they have always been there, its just now GW believes that they have the technology and the market to make and sell them, when i started we had to make our own vehicles unless you wanted a rhino or a land raider, now i can almost field anything in plastic.

But yes its to make money, thats what GW do, and they are damn good at it too.



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Entropy Fetishist
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From a gaming perspective, I think that the giant robots are being introduced to give armies a unit that, essentially, cannot be killed. Well, can't be killed without your opponent sinking an obscene amount of firepower into it. Tanks die to melta, lances, etc no matter how good they are. Infantry gets splattered. The difficulty of doing so many wounds to such a high toughness creature, though, often through and invuln and/or a good armor save, is very high.

An Iyanden army with a few spirit seers that rolls 2 renews and has the ghost helm of whatever can heal 3 wounds on a Wraithknight per turn, essentially letting the Knight--who can't afford to be ignored--essentially tank the majority of the enemy shooting. 2 Riptides with a bucketload of T6 2+ save wounds? Good luck killing those in a points-efficient manner, while they can make their points back in a turn blasting some tank or unit into oblivion. So on for Dreadknights, Trygons, etc. that's why the Titan of a Wraithknight isn't a vehicle but is a monstrous creature instead: durability.
 

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With the Tau there's loads of scope for other units they assimilate any race they come in contact with so all sorts of aliens could have been introduced. A single big model will add the WOW factor to a release meaning 1 big kit to fleece everyone who jumps on the ooh shiny bus and brings something new to people who have collected the same army for years who have probably kitbashed anything previously unavailable.
As much as I detest GW pricing you can't fault the marketing as the big shiny stuff will sell their whole model range in a way that normal infantry stuff wouldn't however shiny it may look.
On the bright side at least the big new kits are'nt finecast few could afford that, and fewer would want to spend the time fixing models that big.
 

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I still haven't bought any of them, because the only one that actually benefits the army (as opposed to more boots on the ground or more vehicles) is the Riptide, and I don't play Tau.

The rest are point sinks that never contribute enough to the game against a good player to make them worthwhile fielding. And you know why the Riptide is the only worthwhile one? Because it's the only one with a 3++ on demand.
 

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The only 'big' unit that makes sense to me is the Riptide, because it has a specific purpose in an army as the daddy broadside, the wraithknight is effectively a small titan which I don't think is necessary as there is a bigger version (albeit one that can only be used in apoc) and a smaller one (wraithlord) which is still tough as hell.

The centurions I think were a marine answer to obliterators - they are fairly similar, heavy weapons based TeQ etc., because for some reason GW thought it was necessary.

And the Dreadknight exists because Matt Ward came into GW one day and said 'You know what would be OTT?'
 

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Critique for da CriticGod
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I'm sure centurions were a gimmick to sell more models and answer the marine players' complaints that chaos had obliterators.

As for giant robots, seems like a sales tactic. They're big and eye catching and expensive. Their cost is almost certainly hugely disproportionate from the production costs.
 

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Well if the rumors are true. Then Nids are getting a big monster which is always good for nids. And if the other snippets i hear are true. Then something big for IG would be kinda cool. Im suspecting something a bit bigger than the sentinels, that or a tank somewhere between a baneblade and a leman russ. That or just more artillery. I also hear Orks might be after that, which means more big noisy toys for them, which is always good.
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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IMO Nids are really the only force that justifies having a big ass MC outside of APOC, Orks,Tau, Eldar and to a certain extent Chaos yeap sure I can accept it but Imperial Armies have never been about Medium sized walkers (Small walkers being Sentinels, Pentient Engines, Dreads, Termie Tubbies etc), they have large walkers yes (Knight Titans, Titans etc) but this medium sized bracket for them doesn't sit with me.

Imperial Knights are not IG, they are Mechanicum so unless the Mechanicum are getting a bigger influence in the new IG book (which I'd 100% be for!) IG don't really have a place for a meduim sized walker. More tank variants would be good or you know a PLASTIC FUCKING HYDRA!
 
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