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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ogryn - The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

I recently watched a game and actually saw Ogryn! Real life (er metal) ogryn. Being a guard player I was curious to see how they were used. The truth of the matter was that I was told that the game is in fact non competetive and that the ogryn player had just finished painting them and absolutley had to field them once. After seeing them I decided to give a brief write up.

The Good

- the models look awesome.
- they have awesome fluff.
- it's nice for humanity to have something "more orky" (bigger, meaner, dumber, stronger, funnier, etc) than even orks themselves.


The Bad

- there are only 3 models plus one bone 'ead
- all metal models make for tough (but not impossible) conversions.
- the price!!! Both cash and points wise. Here's a quick comparison. 3 ogryn (the minimum required for a squad) cost the same as a vendetta! Both in cash and points!!!

The Ugly

- designed for one purpose. Close combat. (And they do a bad job at it)
- they have no power weapons/power fists.
- they have no initiative.
- they save on a 5+
- the one unit designed to buff close combat attacks (the priest), has no effect on Ogryn!!! WTF???
- for their size and sheer mass they should be harder to kill.
- leadership 6 (7 for the bone 'ead)
- in order to survive to reach their foes in CC, they will certainly need a transport but...
- Valks/Vendettas won't hold them.
- chimeras will only hold 6 of them.
- did I mention they're f#@%ing expensive?

I like ogryn. I want to like them more. I want to be able to use them. It would be nice to have just one, repeat "one", CC unit in the guard.

All the above being said, 10 ogryn led by Commissar Yarrick are an impressive CC unit. However before you decide you want to try it out, keep in mind that it will cost you 595 points (ouch!) and $240 USD!!!

The ogryn are one of the most broken (or should I say unbroken) units in the game. Point for point I believe them to be the most impotent unit in the game. If they stay the same they need to be either cheaper in points costs for the next codex or better performers in the game rules.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
good: their guns are pritty good ork mashers. :p

3 str 5 shots with being able to charge after? not too bad if im honest
Don't get me wrong. They can be effective. They can be a great barrier to an advancing green tide. They can stomp a gaunt horde. They have their uses (albeit against select units and armies). They just to need to be tweaked IMO. But for the cost there are too many better options.
 

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i dont know to be honest, the priest gets all the men psyked about the emperor, ogryns have no real concept of the emperor or the greater imperium, thus the priest's rambilngs has no meaning to them.
 

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1 main advantage ogryn have is there T5, not many weapons can insta killem, so they will survive even powerfist and thunder hammer attacks in most case's, and with there 3 wounds, they can tie a a unit up for a while
 

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Point for point I believe them to be the most impotent unit in the game.
I'll take that challenge.

Sisters Repentia:

The Good:
- the models look awesome.
- they have awesome fluff.
- Strength six Power Weapons.
- it's nice for the sisters of Battle to have one unit that, hypothetically, is good at close combat.

The Bad:
- there are only 3 models plus one Mistress
- all metal models make for tough (but not impossible) conversions.
- the price!!! A minimum size unit costs as much as a fully upgraded Immolator in points, and costs more in cash.

The Ugly:
- designed for one purpose. Close combat. (And they do a bad job at it)
- Initiative 1 and no ranged weapons at all.
- they save on a 4+ (Especially egregious when everything other Sister unit can have a 3+ (or better) Invulnerable save).
- 1 Wound.
- They are not Faithful.
- for murderous loonies with six-foot chainswords, they are comically bad at fighting.
- in order to survive to reach their foes in CC, they will certainly need a transport but... they cannot ride in anything.
- Toughness 3 (Did I mention initiative 1 and 4+ save?)
- Don't follow orders 1/3 of the time (Sometimes s often still).
- Leadership 6 (10 for the Mistress)

Ogryn look bad, but you aren't alone.
 

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Yup, most of the stuff wrong with Ogryns are what you wrote above, considering they're supposed to be a CC specialist for guard it is a shame as in comparison to most guard units they do pretty well but unfortunately they don't do that well against the rest of the armies. TBH I think if they just lowered the cost (pointwise and money wise, dear lord 20 something bucks for ONE model?!?!) to at least 30 points and threw in carapace armour base w/FNP or something and gave the Bone'ead the option to take a PF or PW they'd be set. Alas GW has ruined the majority of the guard elites section with half-assery, darn it why are ST 16 points a piece? It seems every time GW gives something with a standard gun of AP3 they overcost it to the point of inefficiency, like Vespid Stingwings, Thousand Son Marines and a couple I can't remember.
 

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It seems every time GW gives something with a standard gun of AP3 they overcost it to the point of inefficiency, like Vespid Stingwings, Thousand Son Marines and a couple I can't remember.
Noise Marine Blastmasters come to mind. Damn things are about twice as expensive as they should be.
 

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I love Ogryns, they just don't cut it in a tough gaming environment so sit on the shelf except in Apoc and Narrative games. They're -

- too expensive points-wise and need a Primaris Psyker to babysit them because of poor Leadership. While cheaper than Yarrick it still blows the cost out so much it handicaps the rest of your list. They also need a Chimera so they at least have a chance to survive long enough to do some damage against weakened enemy units in mid/late game.

- because you're spending so many points on them it has a knock-on effect on what you have to drop from a list to take them.. that's the killer for me to not field them.

- they are counter - assaulters not straight up c/c monsters, so pale against the elite assaulters out there.

as far as Elite choices go I'd choose a PBS far more often than Ogryns...great minies though
 

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Stuff...

...Point for point I believe them to be the most impotent unit in the game...
I'll take that challenge - Sisters Repentia:....

...Ogryn look bad, but you aren't alone.
C'mon folks, those are excellent units!

I give thee 2 real contenders:
In the buzzing Yellow'n'Black corner: Vespid Stingwings:angry:

The Good:
-S5 AP3 gunz
-Jump infantry
-Skilled Flyers (reroll dagerous terrain)

The Bad:
-12 inch range of the gun
-5+ save
-The Price - 1 Vespid costs as much as 1 Tactical Marine. One statline is filled with 4s and juicy other rules. 1 with 3s and shitty morale and save. Go figure....

The Ugly:
-BS3 - in dire need of markerlight support to even have a chance of being dangerous.
-Will thus steal the precious markerlights from units that most likely would have made better use from them.
-Coverhammer 40k will have the little effect the gun used to have annihilated.
-12 inch range, 1 shot and S5 is way from "that" dangerous as their price tag insists on.
-Designed to kill Marines. Reality sees 10 Vespid kill 3 marines and then be horribly owned by Bolters even before ending up in CC.
-Fleet?!?!? For what purpose? Can I skip this and get a discount?
-As dangerous in CC as an I5 guard and a gun that requires being inside Assault range of the opponent.
-Cant ride in transports.
-Cant handle small arms fire thanks to their shitty save.
-Trying to fill a role that ooh so many other units can fill in the army.
-Will act as a speedbump and give your opponent both an extra assaultmove towards you and a sweeping advance.
-LD6 when the Strainleader dies (9 while its alive).


And on the other side:

In the gribbly messy usedtobesomerandomcolour corner: Chaos Spawns:ireful2:

The Good:
-The Apocalypse formation box for them was a very cheap bits box for all chaos players.
-Beast movement.

The Bad:
-Slow and retarded (purposeful)
-Rage USR (mindless)
-Expensive as f*ck
-No save

The Ugly: (oh dear...)
-Apocalypse formation box is sold out since ages.
-The Looks.
-Completely unpredictable.
-Slow and retarded makes them attack at I 1 the first round they charge.
-No save will see them die to enemy attacks before striking.
-If charged their relatively weak attacks wont make a difference.
-Always moving as if in terrain makes them slow and totally impossible to control.
-Random attacks can (and will) rob you of the joy if you somehow manage to get into CC and survive long enough to be allowed to attack.
-WS 3 is ace for some kind of CC monster...
-No power weapon attacks.
-Fearless = no retreat wounds. No retreatwounds with 0 save = epic fail.
-Cant ride in transports.
-Will act as a speedbump and give your opponent both an extra assaultmove towards you and a sweeping advance.
-Rage USR will see your little hope of using them wisely utterly crushed. If they even seem to have a chance of becoming a problem any almost tactically ok opponent will just goad them away to the other side of the board.
-Cost as much as a Hammernator.


And as we all might suspect if a Spawn and a Vespid ended up in a UFC ring the Spawn would eat the Vespid (and the ref), get disqualified and thus be elected the shittiest unit ever :puke:



Ogryns have their uses. While they do lack PWs they are T5 and will thus not suffer that hard from PFs (no instant death), or much from any opponents attacks tbh, and they have S6 on the charge. This means that you will deliver a boatload of saves for the enemy to take. That might be ok as a Terminator, but Orks/Eldars/Whatnots wont be impressed at all.
A Commissar Lord or a Primaris Psyker are both good alternatives for babysitting Ogryns, they are both decent in CC and have solid LD. With the Psyker the unit even get somewhat respected shooting capabilities :)

It doesnt come cheap though, Ill give you that:wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
@Azezel. Almost. Good challenge though. Keep in mind you can literally have 20 sisters repentia for every ten ogryn. Remember I said point for point.

@Grimskul25. Completely agreed. Stormies, while not as bad as ogryns are still overpriced. Vespids. Another cool idea that just doesn't seem to work well.

@Maidenmaniac. Good choices as well, but I think point for point, ogryns retain their new "overpriced-for-capability" crown.
 

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Ogryns+Lord commisar=one tough as shit unit with loads of wounds and now a power weapon. I use this combo to great effect agasint CC focused enemies and standered troops.
 

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I am a huge fan of Ratlings. Using stealth, put them in a terrain feature and distract the enemy with a 50pt Guard squad, whilst the Ratlings get shooting their str X goodness!! At 10pts (I think) a pop, who wouldnt want a few Space Hobbits??
 

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10 points each exactly! god, i love to see a 5 rat squad ordered first rank fire! second rank fire! on an enemy HQ. it's just so funny to watch.
They... they can't do that. FRFSRF only affects lasguns.

Edit: Page 36 of the Codex. It is very specific language that really can't be misinterpreted.
 

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o_O hmmm, it says 'models firing lasguns', but does not limit to it lasguns only. I may be wrong, but it does leave it a bit ambiguous. please let me know if I am so I may change my tactics with it.
You are wrong, it only effects lasguns. I really don't see how its ambiguous unless you want every special rule to be followed by the word 'only'. Sorry but if you want 5 more shots just gonna have to fork out another 50pts.

On to the space ogres, our local guard player does use them now and then and I must admit they do throw a spanner in the works. I wouldn't advise them in tourney play, but for example against my Eldar list, due to the nature of my list I don't have an effective way to deal with them, its the same for a few other players. That said when he brings them I don't mind due to them being there, he often doesn't bring the much more killy units he has at his disposal which again brings it back to the old over costed point.

As for other useless unit in the Blue 'n' white corner Swooping Hawks;

The good:
High I and LD (as with all aspect warriors)
Sunrifle (laser machine guns will always be cool)
Skyleap+Grenade packs combo

The bad:
21pts for T3, 4+ sv and a S3 gun
Power weapon on the exarch....just why

The ugly:
the models actually arn't really that bad. But my I draw your eye to the points again.. 5 plus exarch= 138pts and a 10 strong guardian squad can put out more effective firepower. Ogryns will stomp all over these guys.
 
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