[the-graven]

I have been thinking with the new edition rumors, ogres will su*k.

1: Models will strictly be removed from the back, this will hurt alot, the purpose of ogres was charge, knock the front rank models dead and maybe win CR(with some luck), now it's charge, knock some models dead, get attacks back, recieve some wounds, and lose CR with big numbers.

2: Models will strike in I order even if you've charged, this will hurt too, since the idea was to charge and strike first(and ofcourse the knock models of the first rank dead thingy), now you'll strike last most times.

3: To negate a rank with a flank charge you need to have a rank yourself, well I think everybody knows why this suc*s, even with the rumour that US3 models can have ranks of 3 models this will still hurt, since 1 extra rank will be damn expensive.

Am I completely wrong or is this just unbalanced, has anybody already got the new edition rulebook and tell me if these rumours are true, thx in advance,

the-graven

 

[Skartooth]

Untill the new rule book actually comes out we cannot just assume that models will always fight in Innitiative order on the charge. Perhaps there will be advantages for the unit that charges. With the new % option this could also help ogres, I can see a lot of scrap launchers being squeezed into a 3000 point army

It is also rumoured that when monsterous units charge they will get crush attacks. With this and the crush attacks they all ready have in the army book; before the combat even starts the ogres will have delivered a lot of pain. With even bigger units on 8th ed that means even more crush attacks higher strengh crush attacks from the extra ranks. With this ogres could be a viable force

Skar

 

[murdock129]

I also heard Orges get crush attacks, plus with monstrous units like Ogres the second rank can attack normally so a second Rank of Bulls, while expensive isn't useless. Also units like Ironguts can place two at the front two at the back for extra efficiency

Also with extra ranks shooting Gnoblars suddenly become a lot more effective

 

[Tim/Steve]

I think that ogres will dramatically change with the new rules, but they'll have positives as well as negatives. Crush attacks could mean that ogres are getting 6 impact hits from a unit of 3 and then if the rumours about fighting in 2 ranks are correct then a normal unit of 6 bulls would have 24 S4 attacks (plus making the bull charge impacts +1S) meaning that SCR is far less important then before... but I dont think I believe that one.

There will still be bonuses for charging, which hopefully arent just a bonus 1 attack per model (that would suck for ogres)... if they didnt have any bonuses then it would just be like almost every HE game I've ever played where movement really isnt that important.


I think one of the most important factors for ogres would be if the magic phase is moved before movement: knowing which buffs you have in place when declaring charges would be hugely helpful, as would knowing which buffs the enemy didnt dispel when choosing whether to flee charges or not...
if the rumour of 25% characters or lords limit in the games are right then thats a huge boost to ogres in relation to other armies since its the big 5-600pt flying monster lords like bloodthirsters and dragons that they just have no answer for. Sure its irritating that cheap BTs can still fit in at 25% of a 2k game but anything other then rubbish dragons wont, while ogres dont really have anything over 500pts anyway... at least not yet (I'm not counting Greasus.. its not like anyone ever wanted to take him anyway).

 

[neilbatte]

I don't really think that ogres will be any worse than they are now under the new rules it will just take a bit of a rethink as to how the army will be chosen.
From the rumours that I've seen MSU is a dying concept (It just doesn't sell enough figures) Large blocks of infantry will be standard and with random charges any clever tactical moves become fairly pointless
But from what I've heard so far large monsters get some help against big blocks and even if they are awful OK are due a new book which should help them as its unlikely that this close to a new edition and with the power levels of the game as they are at the moment GW would release a weak list because they'd lose money.
The gunline list that I use at the moment should get a bit of a boost with most of the changes as I don't rely on too much combat anyway.

 

[deathbringer]

I know this is about ogres but Tim steve really has said it all, its a mixed can for ogres.

However Bretts are absolutely fucked with the new ed rules, i mean we its rather hard with these rules

Fight in initiative order,rely on a devestating first charge that smashes the enemy apart causing them to fail there leadership test, so it means charactors are really going to hurt our lances before we can get them. Challenges will be more important so i think ill be taking gauntlet of the duel virtue of confidence.

25%on charactors, bollucks, a solid lord 200 points odd so, no more banner of the lady to mess up those huge ranks, no more 3 damsels to allow me to resist dark elf magic

Magic phase, sorry I dont know what that is.... oh the dispel phase right yeah gotcha, doesnt really make a difference where you put it.

Models removed from the back, shit no more clearing out the middle of the lance so i still get my attacks on the side.

If these rumours are true, well Bretts are going to need a serious redo

 

[CursedUNTILLDEATH]

Bretts will be screwed...sad becasue i was looking into starting a brett army. As for orges the crush rule looks more like a help then a hurt (its not like bull charge works now). Im really hoping on seeing some new units in the new orge book and some models need to be redesinged (yhettes...cool fluff, horriable models. Gorgers to). I am liking my orges at the moment and am hoping that the new edtion wont destory the game as we know it (the magic phase does need moving though, it would espaccliy help gut magic.) The lords system dosnt really seem to bad to me becasue the surrant one isnt great (not being able to take a tyrant in anything else but a 2000 point game is retarded). As for the initiative rule... please dont make it so.

 

[Skartooth]

I image that bret heavy cavalry will be able to march when thier new book comes out, after all in the book it states that they are a pure breed of horse and superior to those used by the empire. This would make sense as right now the empire ones are alomst better

So to lead this thread of topic

Skar

 

[neilbatte]

I think that it's probably going to work out fairly well for all the armies that are in need of updating. The OK, TK, Bretts and Woodelves will all have problems adapting too 8th much more than any of the other armies as these all lack a solid core infantry choices with which to build an army around.
Luckily these are all the armies that are more likely to be first on the list so can have 8TH edition rules that should overcome their problems (Unless GW just decide to redo the more popular armies and hang the others out to dry)

 

[Khorothis]

I think I've heard that once the big book comes out, or perhaps with it, every army will get a FAQ and a bit of combing. So while it is wise to brace for impact, it would be unwise to abandon ship.

 

[deathbringer]

Don't have the money to jump ship, my testicles are well and truly nailed to the battle standard

Well hopefully the FAQ should help but i have little hope for redo's simply because GW will always put the more popular armies first and bretts just arent a popular army

 

[Blueberrypop]

tell that to the 7 brett players at my GW

 

[the-graven]

About the ogres, yeah they get some boosts, I'll watch and wait.
I'm not abandoning ship, just doubting if I'll buy a ticket, I haven't started an ogre army yet, but I want too. I'll watch what the new edition brings and see, if ogres have at least 25% chance to win against most armies I'll start an army with them.(i don't really care about winning, but it has to be possible otherwise it just really sucks)