[HiveMinder]

So this cropped up in another thread and I thought I would move it here- its an interesting topic and certainly one for the rules thread
- T/S

For this reason I've been coming up with some new tactics for re-casting magic onto myself... and letting my opponent's cleverness work against them: many are letting me have good buffs early in the game assuming I'll forget about them and they can simply dispel them when I reach combat. Well I'm going to graciously accept that buff, giving me protection from magic/shooting right up until I charge... then just when my opponents think they can reveal their tactic and dispel my buff I cast the same buff at the same unit...

I hate to throw a monkey wrench in your tactical engine, but you aren't allowed to cast a Remains in Play spell if it is still in play from a previous turn. It has to be ended voluntarily or dispelled before you can cast it again.

 

[Wolf_Lord_Skoll]

Orge spells aren't remains in play, they are 'lasting effect'. I'm not sure how that affects that rule, but seeing as they aren't really remains in play, I would be inclinded to think that a Butchere/Slaughtermaster can recast a spell.

 

[Tim/Steve]

Ogre spells have their own, rather length and confusing ruleset... basically they can be dispelled as if they were remains in play spells that have a 7+ cast value, but you cast them very very differently.

I'll get onto part 2 of my compendium at some point... but this week I'm a bit busy (and am putting off the last 1k words of a report I need to do).

 

[HiveMinder]

They still count as Remains in Play spells. Page 3 of the OK FAQ makes it pretty clear, they are treated as Remains in Play spells cast with a power level of 7.

 

[fishywinkles]

Well on page 36 of the rulebook:

"[Remains in play spells] only come to an end when the target is slain, or else the caster is slain, chooses to end the spell (WHICH HE CAN DO AT ANY TIME) or leaves the battlefield."

So all you do is choose to end the spell just before you recast it onto that unit.

 

[Tim/Steve]

They still count as Remains in Play spells. Page 3 of the OK FAQ makes it pretty clear, they are treated as Remains in Play spells cast with a power level of 7.

you mean this one?

Q. An opponent may dispel a Gut Magic spell in his own magic
phase as though it was a Remains in Play spell cast with a Power
level of 7. Can an opponent use excess dispel dice to attempt to dispel
Gut Magic spells in play at the end of the Ogre Kingdoms player's
subsequent magic phases? If yes, are the Gut Magic spells treatd as
Remains in Play spells cast with a Power level of 7? (p60)
A. Yes to all questions.

If so (and there cant be anything else you mean) then I suggest you read it again- its talking about them being RiP for the purpose of dispel... if you still dont get it read the ogre magic section where it specifically says they are not RiP but are dispelled as RiP... and if you still dont get it then carry on reading the magic section where it says you can cast the same spell multiple times at multiple different targets (just not in the same turn): I can use 1 butcher to put the same spell onto every unit in my army if given enough time...

Once cast the only effective link between the spell and the butcher is that if the butcher dies the spell ends- I cant even decide to end the effects like I would for a RiP spell (so if I had toothcracker giving a unit stubborn but wanted to run away to escape a near certain destruction I couldnt end the spell to get a reduced Ld).

 

[Wolf_Lord_Skoll]

Once cast the only effective link between the spell and the butcher is that if the butcher dies the spell ends- I cant even decide to end the effects like I would for a RiP spell (so if I had toothcracker giving a unit stubborn but wanted to run away to escape a near certain destruction I couldnt end the spell to get a reduced Ld).

You can just cast a different spell on a unit afterwards, yes it's a waste of a spell, but it's not going to come up often. Still annoying though aye.

 

[HiveMinder]

I see your point. I missed the "If yes,..." part of the FAQ linking the two questions together, so you can see my train of thought if you read it like I did.

"Q: Are the Gut Magic spells treated as Remains in Play spells cast with a power lvl. of 7?
A: Yes"

In any case, that severely throws into question why they errata'ed out the fifth paracraph, that mentions them being "Unlike Remains in Play spells..." as well as the restriction that each unit could only have one gut magic spell on it at a time.

Unless I'm missing something (again), that means you' could effectively double and triple up on spells, making Ogres +2, +3, or even +4 T if the opponent doesn't dispel the buffs. This is why I thought they were intended to be Remains in Play, to avoid heinously breaking Gut Magic. However, RAW don't agree with me.

@ Durzod: If you have Skaven too, you might want to check out my thread on 8e Skaven //www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=66611

 

[Tim/Steve]

Yeah, its very weird that they've got rid of the fifth paragraph. Now we have no rules governing just what gut magic is meant to be- its certainly not RiP (although the FAQ tells us that they are dispelled as such) and ther eis no limit for buffs on a unit... all very weird.

 

[Arli]

I have tried to stack buffs in the manner mentioned. It is not nearly as easy as it seems. My opponent just lets the initial buff go through, then in his own magic phase, dispells the buff (if he does not dispell it when it is initially cast).

 

[HiveMinder]

I never said it was easy, just that it's possible with RAW.

Also, thanks T/S for moving this to a new thread. Didn't mean to start an argument in your compendium thread.