[MidnightSun]

Hi

I'm fairly new to Fantasy, having only played two or three games.I've got a 1000pt+ force of Orcs and Goblins, which is just BfSP with a unit of Orcs, a BSB and a Boar-Mounted Big Boss. That army was to get to grips with the rules and testing the rules/what type of army I wanted. Now I know that I would like in an army:

Movement: This really started to annoy me with OnG.
Leadership: I hate Animosity. I also hate it when my units run off randomly, before being run down.
Close Combat: This is a really interesting stage of the game for my.
Magic: That's what makes Fantasy different from 40K, in my eyes.

I'm a fairly good painter, and I'm thinking of getting a new army which will be my main one. Using the great thread here on Heresy I've taken down the chooses to two: Ogre Kingdoms and Daemons of Chaos. I have had a little experience painting Daemons, and Ogres look kinda hard to do, but Ogres seem slightly better at some things... *looks at Leadbelchers and smiles...*

Can anyone give me advice on which would suit me better? And can anyone share with me some experience with either of the two armies?

Thanks,
Midnight

 

[neilbatte]

Deamons of chaos are a very good army so if your main concern is winning with as little effort as possible then they are probably the way to go.
OK is a weak army although the new rules may fix some of their problems added to this they're rumoured to get a new book. if you want a real challenge and a warm glow inside when you win then OK's are the way to go.
Both armies are fairly fast or at least have fast units available (How relevant this will be with random charges incomeing is debateable)
The deamons don't run away as such and the ogres causing fear helps somewhat although their ld is a joke for their size.
Both armies have good combat capabilities although with ogres you'll need to work to maximise their potential.
Deamons have good magic and can use it to dominate the game (at the expense of other phases) Ogres magic is good although unless you take lots of butchers its a bit to easy for your opponent to ignore.

 

[Skartooth]

There are a few ways you can go about choosing an army

1.Playstyle: does the army suit your style of play on the table top. Link the armies strenghs and weaknesses to yours

2.Power Level: Do you want to be playing competitive or friendly games. With the power creep in WHFB some armies are simply better than others. Choose your army according to this

3. Fluff/Background: Make sure you like the fluff and background of the army. I you don't like the history behind the army you are playing this can be off putting

4. Models: Make sure you like the look of the models. Playing and painting with models you hate can be a nightmare

5. Simplicity: How easy and cost effective will it be to go about collecting/painting your chosen army. How simple are the models to paint. Having endless amount of expensive metal models that you are unsure how to paint could really slow down the progress of your army

Just read through each question and answer them in your head. Whitch ever army ticks the most boxes is the one I would choose. Unless of corse you are strongly swayed by one characteristic the army has.

Hope my different approach rather than personal oppinion helps :biggrin:

Skar

 

[MidnightSun]

Great, I'll save up to buy the book for either but ultimately, wait until the new rules are out.

Midnight

EDIT: Looking at the models/background, I like the look of Ogres a bit more. Has anyone got any tips on painting them? I'm not good with grey. There is a guide on GW but like most of their guides it produces so-so results while trying to get you to buy 50000 paints to do a foot.

ANOTHER EDIT: Hang on, 8th Ed. ogres are looking like they are being toned down BIGTIME. Ah well, back to painting green...

 

[mynameisgrax]

Daemons or Ogres? That's an easy one to answer. That's like being asked if you should eat at a luxury restaurant, or shoot yourself in the foot with a crossbow.

I'm all for picking armies that match your playstyle, and the advice previously posted is good, but I just wanted to say that from my experience, Ogre Kingdoms are terrible. I'm not sure what they had in mind when they released the codex, because the Ogre units in other armies either have far more options, or are better priced.

Not only are the Ogre units in Ogre kingdoms bizarrely inferior or more expensive than other Ogres, but their magic is weak, they get virtually no armor, they don't have shields (they have a version, but it's very limited), they're no tougher or stronger on the charge than Orcs, their leadership isn't great, they're expensive, their weapon skill and initiative is low, you have to take a severely underpowered Ogre unit for each block troop of gnoblars you want, you can't have a spellcasting lord unless you already have a close combat lord, no cavalry, no cannon, the only bolt thrower is a character, no archers or any long ranged mass shooting, and...well, I could go on forever.

Don't get me wrong, it is possible to win with Ogres, but it's very very difficult, and even then you have to use them in a very specific way. If you like Ogres, than I'd play one of the other armies that can take them as a special and/or rare choice.

 

[murdock129]

Ogre Kingdoms are very underrated, see the post above.

Ogres are pretty tough, while lacking strategic abilities in 7th edition the changes in the 8th edition make them much stronger. Their shooting is notably better (Leadbelchers, Scraplaunchers and even Gnoblars are pretty tough when used right) while their main Ogre units are pretty dead hard. Gorgers are great for Warmachine killing and wizard hunting while Yhetees are great speed units capable of taking on even Treemen without massive amounts of difficulty, plus their ice auras make them hard to hit.

Though I will admit this, Daemons are the better and stronger army at present (though they are getting new rules soon so that may not stay). Sadly I find them over powered and not to much fun since, at least with Khorne and Tzeentch models, it's very easy to win games.

Basically Ogre Kingdoms are weaker, with more unit types, are more fun and are beter at some things.

 

[neilbatte]

Ogre kingdoms fell foul of the mercenary rule. While as an army they are at the moment at least considered weak its mainly because your paying extra for the dogs of war rule (which is no longer relevant)
At face value ogres are overpriced and their advantages are easily negated when fielded in a pure ogre army but what your paying extra for was the ability to add ogre units to armies that had inherant weaknesses that the ogres could fill (like leadbelchers in a chaos army or a fighty fear causing unit to Empire)
With the new army book rumoured soonish and the dogs of war rule effectively removed from other books it should help adjust the problem provided GW don't bottle it and deliberately weaken them for fear of monster backlash.
Another problem with the OK army is that while on the surface it looks to be the perfect starter army (low model count and easy to paint) it's actually more on a par tactically with wood elves which meant on release there was a rush of newbies trying it out and getting hammered against easier to play armies which led to loads of backlash on forums complaining that the army was rubbish and that stuck.
I win just as much with my ogres both gunline and msu fighty as any of my other armies with the exception of my Chaos Dwarfs who rarely lose but then I've played them pretty consistently since their release and know how they work (Although I'm not sure I really want to relearn with the new edition yet)

 

[Tim/Steve]

Ogres can be made to work for you but you really need to learn to play them and learn well... daemons will win and win often from the offset but because of exactly that people will often judge you for taking them (or just not play you).
Daemons are naturally powerful... everything they do they'll be good at and they can go toe for toe with pretty much any other army at whatever they do best if you build your daemon army right. I pretty much think that if you are going to play daemons you need to know what you are doing so that you know how to make nasty lists and, more importantly, how to make iffy lists that can actually lose to other armies (making 'good' lists is somethign to avoid with daemons unless you are taking them to a tournament).

Ogres are a fun army but arent really 'competetive' enough for tournaments... although every once in a while they do turn up and do very well- I recon thats due to them behaving radically differently to all other armies, meaning that people have little experience to draw on to counter them and because the ogre player has probably had some luck with their opponents (ie they havent met a daemon player). I adore my ogres, mostly for their fluff but they are also good fun to play with.. and if you win with them you know its due to good play rather then just out-muscling the enemy.

 

[CursedUNTILLDEATH]

The first time i played orges at my club my oppenat had to ask me what EVERYTHING on my brusier did and all my unit stats. He ended up running his anti-chaos list, which got burned into the ground...untill turn 4. Orges are like tomb kings, not to many people play them so not to many people know how to counter them. They are a litle pricey unit wise but the next ed should fix that and they are a fun army to play.

 

[mynameisgrax]

I just wanted to add that Ogres did indeed get better with the new 8th edition rules, but so did all monstrous infantry. If you like Ogres, then you're much better off playing Chaos Warriors and using Chaos Ogres. Skaven and Beastmen also have nice monstrous infantry.

 

[Tim/Steve]

Im not so sure they did get better- they certainly changed a lot... but the balance of better/worse is a hard one to read.
Units got harder hitting, get ranks, maneaters and gorgers became awesome as did scraplaunchers and slavegiants. The problem is that now ogres strike last in pretty much every fight they'll ever take part in, and most armies out there will be fielding a unit that ogres just cannot charge inot the face of, even with any of the buffs you might normally want- and if you are forced to flank you must do so with a rank, so all the enemy has to do to stop you is to reduce half your units to less then 6 models (Im not intending to use much more then 6 in any unit anyway) and turn to face any that are still large enough: free reform off a musician and then walk towords the ogres... not only forces the ogres to charge but gets rid of the bull charge, not that that is much more then a polish at this point anyway. Bull charge will give you a couple extra S4-5 hits against enemies but isnt going to significantly reduce the amount of attacks on you or make a damn bit of difference if teh enemy has more ranks then you at the end of combat (and as long as they can keep 1 they are almost certain to have more ranks then anything short of a monster of an ogre unit).

 

[the-graven]

Ogres are likely to get a new army book , so you've got to wait and see what will happen to them.

 

[Tim/Steve]

Yeah, new book should be out later in the year... or early next at the latest.