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Discussion Starter #1
Which one do you like better? lets see what these people have to say about it.

 

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This is the silly video ever mainly because of the one fact that ObamaCare and The AffordableCare Act are the same thing. Sheesh :shok:
 

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That is the joke and why the whole shutdown situation is being mocked.
 

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I actually tried this on quite a few people at work, of twenty people only one actually knew they were the same thing. And yet, for one reason or another the other nineteen were against obamacare but though the affordable healthcare act was something to get behind.
 

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That's probably because all the bad press calls it Obamacare and all the good press calls it the affordable care act.
 

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I actually tried this on quite a few people at work, of twenty people only one actually knew they were the same thing. And yet, for one reason or another the other nineteen were against obamacare but though the affordable healthcare act was something to get behind.
Or it could be the Liberal Media calls it Afforable Health Care act and sells it in a spin-off to the public. The actually good journalists and media outlets call it what it really is....ObamaCare.

Sometimes I'm truely shocked by the ignorance in our fellow Americans; it's astounding
 

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It is liberal to call it by the name at the top of the Act? The one that was passed into law?
 

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Honestly....yes. It is not so much my opinion but more a observation. Liberal Media stations such as NBC, MSNBC, CNN, and ABC all refer to it as "The Affordable Healthcare Act," and attempt not to refer to it as ObamaCare in a political context. Also supporters of the bill I have discussed this (majority of whom are Nurses at my place of work) with don't like it when I call it ObamaCare...in fact more than a few have gotten angry.

Yet as Darkreever said those who do not support the bill call it ObamaCare. I also noticed the same thing as Darkreever when it comes to actual knowledge of the bill itself; and what it entails. Whether this is because they just don't like the President or because they don't like the bill itself is anyones guess.

Working in healthcare myself I honestly think it's a bad idea...period. The lack of knowledge though on the issue is the same reason the goverment will get away with this fiasco. It's also the reason why they get away with alot of other things too; but thats for a different thread.

Interesting article on the so-called "Launch" of ObamaCare......reminds me of GTA Online. :p

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/10/09/3-million-obamacare-website-may-face-months-glitches-experts-warn/
 

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Your forgetting BBC, NPR IS and Al-Jazera who all call it The Affordable Care Act. Which really only leaves the fucktards at Faux News who use the stupid buzz word ObamaCare.

Want to see were the problem lies in America, look at the teabaggers in Congress who are currently holding nation hostage.
 

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Your forgetting BBC, NPR IS and Al-Jazera who all call it The Affordable Care Act. Which really only leaves the fucktards at Faux News who use the stupid buzz word ObamaCare.

Want to see were the problem lies in America, look at the teabaggers in Congress who are currently holding nation hostage.
Indeed, its incomprehensible to me that a) your government has shutdown and b) there isn't mass rioting in the streets protesting this and that the congressmen still have their jobs. Here is Australia we have something called a Double dissolution.

When the government is unable to function, that is, faces a completely hostile legislature and can't get any bills passed, it can ask the Governor General to dissolve both houses of parliament and call an immediate and full election.

We've only had to do it 6 times, but it's always worked to get the government working again.

On the subject of 'ObamaCare'. @Emperorshand how is ObamaCare the legislation's proper name? It's called the Affordable Health Care Act, calling it that is simply using the correct term. Obamacare is a silly buzzword used because it's memorable and snappy.

As an aside using terms like 'the Liberal Media' makes you look crazy. It suggests you believe there's some vast conspiracy amongst the various media outlets and platforms to push a 'liberal' agenda. While we're on the subject what do you even mean by liberal? Republicans and Democrats are both liberal parties, America was founded on principles of liberalism. Every Western government is a liberal government.

I'm not saying you are crazy but using loaded terms like that doesn't help how you seem to come across.
 

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We have needed a double dissolution for 6 years. Our current Congress is the most unproductive in over a century. All they have on their minds is bad talking and trying to dissolve the ACA. We are nearing 40 votes to try and get rid of it and each has failed, hell even a conservative Supreme Court has upheld it.
 

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your government has shutdown and b) there isn't mass rioting in the streets protesting this and that the congressmen still have their jobs.
The answer to your question is quite simple, it's not bad enough for that. When they cannot go shopping, when they are dirt poor, when there is no more electricity for the Xbox's and TV's; when Wealthfare and Benefits dry up, when salaries are sacked by taxes (which is coming due to ObamaCare). When all this happens then they will riot.

For all their talk many of my fellow Americans are pacified, content to not give a damn about the goverment unless it directly affects them. It's scary IMHO.

TBH Rems I still dislike the Affordable Health Care Act, and my reasons are simple.
....
A) This countries broke whether or not we are rioting. Out of control spending, massive inflation, lack of resources which is only now showing it's affect on the economy. We don't have the money for this massive project; let alone many of the other "Social Reform" project's Mr. Obama has going on might I add.

B) The amount taken out of your taxes every week is staggering. I already loose roughly $120 out of my $485 pay check every week just for the current taxes. Under ObamaCare I slighted to expect another 80-110 being taken out. Thats means I'm only going to be bringing home $290-ish ever week. To me this is criminal, extortion, and is goinging to kill the economy and the younger generations who are trying to make it by in these tough times.

C) Finally the organization and operation is pisspoor. Just look at the failing "$93 Million" website that is having "Launch" problem; it's laughable. After talking with RN, Doctors, and my father (whose a General Practitioner: Internal Medicine) they all say the Insurance will not pay a dime. My Dad only makes $110 for every patient when he should be recieving $150 +Plus Co-Pay per account. Thus he's loosing more than $50 a patient which is killing his private practice. In short....don't go to school to0 be a Doctor cause the jobs won't pay well in the near future. Hospitals I have worked at around here are failing, running short of cash,. cutting nurses and bennies....the list is growing every week. The conclusion here is ObamaCare may, and probably will, kill the HealthCare field in this country and bring it down to something similar to the Canadiens (no offense Canada; Love You :) )

Not to waste time you can PM me if you want to chat about it. Hell I'd even be willing to Skype you over it. However I feel that once it picks up in late Febuary of 2014 this countries going under. Next 1-3 years were going to be broke....just like Greece.

'the Liberal Media'
To answer the latter I mean media outlets that favor the Deomcrat (or Left-Wing) agenda and do there best to put a positive spin on things for them while knocking down the Republican (Right-Wing) agenda at any turn. You are correct that Liberal usually stands for the following....

but generally they support ideas such as free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and private property (Wikipedia 1).
I do not know how they view it in Australia, but in America the "Liberal Media" is a term often used in journalism to denote mass media in general. It also is commonly used as slang (..at least on the East Coast..) to refer to to any media outlets supporting the Left-Wings (or the Presidents) current agenda. Things like Pro-Choice, Secularism, Darwinism, Science, Social Inequality, Immigration Reform, Anti-Nationalism, Anti-Gun, Enviroment, Pro-Wealthfare, Pro-Gay Rights, Socialism, and Centralized Goverment to name a few. The "Conservative Media" is it's opposite; supporting the Right Wing agenda. Thins like Pro-Life, Faith, Nationalism, Unionism, Decentralized goverment, Social Hierarchy, Pro-Marriage, Capitalism, Populism, and Pro-Military. When I say Liberal Media I am using it in this sense, to refer to the President agenda that is very, very Left-Wing despite all his "promises for balance and bi-partisanship."

ObamaCare.
True, "Faux" needs some work. TBH though I don't even consider Al-Jazeera to be American honestly. It scares me their even allowed to operate in this country considering their past history and what they have been involved in.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Your forgetting BBC, NPR IS and Al-Jazera who all call it The Affordable Care Act. Which really only leaves the fucktards at Faux News who use the stupid buzz word ObamaCare.

Want to see were the problem lies in America, look at the teabaggers in Congress who are currently holding nation hostage.
found this pretty interesting.
 

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So what sources do you have that are stating that your taxes are going to increase 16-22% of your income. Because all reports I have seen state that middle and low income wage groups will end up with a tax cut under the ACA.
http://www.dpc.senate.gov/healthreformbill/healthbill09.pdf


The US actually has pretty low taxes compared to the rest of the large scale countries of the world. Complaining about it to those that are not from the US on these forums is probably going to get at most a mocking chuckle from them over it.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/01/pf/taxes/top-income-tax/index.html


The website having issues is actually a sign of how much people want the ACA by the way. If the ACA was not a high demand thing then the servers would not be stressed. As to it being down for months, try a week or two max while they bump up bandwidth capacity.
http://www.wishtv.com/news/local/affordable-care-act-website-issues-addressed

Our economy is not broke, we are no where close to what happened in Greece. When we start going hmmmm, maybe we shouldn't spend 20% of our budget on defense, I might agree with you.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-to-know-about-the-defense-budget-in-charts/


EDIT:
Tax increases are mainly going to be for those that make more than 200k a year.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...the-most-important-tax-increase-in-obamacare/
http://www.mainebiz.biz/article/201...rdable-care-act-affects-your-2013-tax-returns
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-steber/tax-law-changes-in-2013-f_b_3873024.html

Website issue story:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/07/week-exchange-glitches-fixes/2935769/
 

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look at the teabaggers in Congress who are currently holding nation hostage.
Can you say they are holding the nation hostage djinn24, or they are holding us accountable. I agree the Shutdowns good for no one (if it really is a shut down honestly). However the goverment's "wild," and lets be honestly wildly out of control, spending is putting us all at risk. Is it so bad that they strong arm the guy who has put our nation into the dirt?

Shas'Ui I saw that pic; very interesting. i'm going to see if they are doing that often as I read CNN/not watch it on TV.

Scscofield, you present a good point so let me explain as best I can here.

RESPONSE: America cannot afford to do nothing.
Scare tactics, nothing more. My good friend(and X-GF) who recent got pregnant got Mass Health(the state funded Medicare) within days. She's covered for everything now. Mass Health, while in need of refining, is doing a decent job as it is. I have decent insurance with Harvard Pilgrim and I work for a poor salary. Why add another program and more taxes?

RESPONSE: The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will lower health care costs for all Americans and won’t increase taxes for the middle class.
 Right now, Americans pay a hidden tax of more than $1,100 because of a flawed and broken system. By requiring everyone to have health insurance, this legislation will combat that tax.
 The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is a net tax cut for low and middle income families. In fact, many families will see an increase in wages as employers make more responsible health insurance choices.
You really believe this...especially with the load of applicants flowing in everyday? The system will not fix itself under the State goverments, what makes you think the Feds will be any different? The "$93 Million" website fiasco is just the start. (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obamacare-website-millions-glitches/2013/10/10/id/530382). Once the program starts rolling the massive money needed to pay the bills will not go down...it will go up. Now you just took a State level issue and made it a national issue? Why, totally unecessary! "...increase in wages as employers make more responsible health insurance choices." Responsible health choices? Really, you believe this Scscofield? I'm all ears if you can prove me wrong.

RESPONSE: The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will make Medicare more efficient, NOT cut seniors’ benefits.
Possibly, and good for them. Seeing as I'm 24 bad for me; but eh. I'll help pay their bills, least I can do as a good responsible American right?

Complaining about it to those that are not from the US on these forums is probably going to get at most a mocking chuckle from them over it.
You make a good case here, but remember were Americans. You know as I do we HATE TAXES; PERIOD! I'd rather have high costing bills and pay them with all my money than pay taxes. Plus considering my wages, and the increasing problem of good pay jobs disappearing I'm not willing to put that faith in the goverment.

When we start going hmmmm, maybe we shouldn't spend 20% of our budget on defense, I might agree with you.
Which your right, we should curtail it down to at least 15% since we really are not "at war" with another nation. However I was military and I cannot help but want to take care of their families and fellow soldiers. Thus I have no problem with "Defense Spending," in fact I'd rather have my money there than on other things.


In conclusion Scscofield it's great that you seem to have faith it can work; I do not. I work in healthcare, my families been involved in healthcare for a few generations now. I know the system well and can see the pitfall coming. I do not trust the goverment to be able to fix the problem that has already been gorwing out of control. I think it has nothing to do with "affordability" as they would have you believe. If anything, they should go after the pharmacutical companies like Johnson/Johnson, Novartis, and Pfizer. These companies are creating the problem by bad manufactuering, poor management, increasing costs on their products for profit margins, and accruing debt of their own. Fix that and Healthcare costs decrease.

Oh silly me I forgot, they own many of the Senators/House Reps(through Lobbyists). :whistle: Guess there is nothing to be done then,
 

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TBH Rems I still dislike the Affordable Health Care Act, and my reasons are simple.
....
A) This countries broke whether or not we are rioting. Out of control spending, massive inflation, lack of resources which is only now showing it's affect on the economy. We don't have the money for this massive project; let alone many of the other "Social Reform" project's Mr. Obama has going on might I add.
America is running a deficit that's true, it's also something which can be fixed. Adjust spending and increase taxes. A deficit is simple to fix, look how Clinton got a surplus running and was on track to repay all your debt.

What resources are you lacking? Arn't you now enjoying a boom in shale oil. I can't think of any resources America is lacking or being deprived of.

B) The amount taken out of your taxes every week is staggering. I already loose roughly $120 out of my $485 pay check every week just for the current taxes. Under ObamaCare I slighted to expect another 80-110 being taken out. Thats means I'm only going to be bringing home $290-ish ever week. To me this is criminal, extortion, and is goinging to kill the economy and the younger generations who are trying to make it by in these tough times.
You pay tax, that's the price of living in a nation state. Honestly that's not even that much comapred to most other industrialized nations. America's tax rate, especially for the rich and company tax is pathetically low. Other countries, like Australia or Britain or France or Germany do just fine with health care and high taxes.

Taxes are good, it's how your government provides you with the essential services society needs to function.

Taxes give you your roads, water, electricity, communications, currency, health care, subsidies, law enforcement, fire brigades and everything else modern society requires to function. Taxes make things cheaper and fairer for everyone.

C) Finally the organization and operation is pisspoor. Just look at the failing "$93 Million" website that is having "Launch" problem; it's laughable. After talking with RN, Doctors, and my father (whose a General Practitioner: Internal Medicine) they all say the Insurance will not pay a dime. My Dad only makes $110 for every patient when he should be recieving $150 +Plus Co-Pay per account. Thus he's loosing more than $50 a patient which is killing his private practice. In short....don't go to school to0 be a Doctor cause the jobs won't pay well in the near future. Hospitals I have worked at around here are failing, running short of cash,. cutting nurses and bennies....the list is growing every week. The conclusion here is ObamaCare may, and probably will, kill the HealthCare field in this country and bring it down to something similar to the Canadiens (no offense Canada; Love You :) )
Anecdotes and opinion are not facts. Use facts like Scosfield does.




Can you say they are holding the nation hostage djinn24, or they are holding us accountable. I agree the Shutdowns good for no one (if it really is a shut down honestly). However the goverment's "wild," and lets be honestly wildly out of control, spending is putting us all at risk. Is it so bad that they strong arm the guy who has put our nation into the dirt?
Yes, they're holding your nation hostage.

In protest over legislation that was signed into law 2 (3?) years ago, the Republicans are willing to shut the entire government down. They're using fear to achieve their demands, that's what hostage takers and terrorists do.

Obama isn't even to blame for America's economic ills. It's the fault of the Reagon and Bush jr administration for operating on the the flawed logic of supply side economics. They deliberately ran deficits and borrowed money in the mistaken belief it would have a trickle down effect and kickstart the economy. It didn't. Clinton got things back on track, running a surplus and on track to pay back all your debt by 2006. Instead Bush came along brought back reagononmics and dove into two wars.

Obama inherited America's fiscal problems, he didn't cause them.

The Affordable Health Care Act isn't wild spending. it's an attempt to give America the basic universal healthcare that everyother Western democracy enjoys and can afford. Over the long term it will save you money versus the current system.

At the moment if you can't afford health insurance you can't get treatment at your gp or hospital. Instead you go to the ER where they can't turn you away. In doing that however you're clogging up the er and costing the hospital (and it turn the government and so the tax payer) large amounts of money. If everyone has health insurance and access to health care they can simply go to their local practioner or regular hospital. The strain on the expensive ER is eased.

Regulation over health insurance means that it can be cheaper. At the moment your health care provides and insurance provides operate on a for profit basis. They have no incentive to save you or the system money. The government does however and can regulate the field.

There's a reason why the rest of the developed world provides operate their health care in a similar manner. It works, it works well.
 

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I presented links and information. You presented non backed up garbage. Guess I am done here, same result as last time we discussed this subject.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Just pointing out, I was just trying to post funny stuff, I don't want this thread to turn into a fight over the stupidest thing ever "Politics". I respect and welcome everyones opinions, but when it becomes just arguing and bashing each other it's time to take a step back and breath. Even Lincoln said "A house divided cannot stand" and boy are we teetering.



Can't we all just get along?

 
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