[DarwinsGhost]

Here is my second scenario needing clarity.

The plague banner is a nasty item that reads roughly as follows. In the players SHOOTING phase the banner can release its powers on any unit within 6" causing D6 wounds with no armour saves. It can be used even if the unit (and presumably target) are locked in assault. It specifically says it is treated as shooting and in the shooting phase.

So...here is my scenario.

12 man IG squad assault my plaguemarines in the IG turn. No one dies and combat ends with both still locked.

In the plaguemarine turn, in the SHOOTING phase I unleash my banner on the 12 man IG squad and cause 6 wounds causing death.....

Now...

1) Since this happens all in the shooting phase and the IG took over 25% casualties in the shooting phase do they need to take a fall back test? (as the banner specifically says it is treated just like any other shooting but can be used by, and in, locked units)

2) If they fail that role, and thus they retreat in the SHOOTING phase, can my plaguemarines do a sweeping advance in the shooting phase?

2a) If the plaguemarines do get a sweeping advance, can they then assault in the assault phase another unit nearby?

2b) If they do not get to do sweeping advance, the IG just run, my plaguemarines should be free to charge after them and assault them again in the assault phase, forcing another Ld test to see in the IG turn and fight or are slaughtered. Which option is correct so far?

Second scenario...those IG are fighting plaguemarines without a banner but standing nearby after movement phase is a second plaguemarines squad with a banner and they want to throw that wargear's sorcerous energy into combat at the enemy.

3) Can they? Does it invoke all the complications as the above scenario.

4) Making it all worse the second squad of plaguemarines could be behind or rear-beside the combat and if the IG flee in shooting they are cut down by the crossfire.

***Or...one compromise suggested by a friend would be to hold off and treat those deaths as part of the assault phase to determine a winner....BUT not only is that less favourable to the plaguemarines, it also goes against the fact the banner is said to be used in the shooting phase.

This is a 50pt, very expensive wargear option, and I want to get all I can out of it. It is wargear, yet it is written ((fluff)) as a sorcerous type effect with warp energies and all that. On the flip-side I want to be able to use it in my themed based army (where it belongs) without being labelled as beardy or cheesy.


Heck, for that matter, ALL psychic abilities listed as shooting phase but usable when locked in combat would raise all these issues too.

 

[Warboss Dakka]

Here's what happens. You shoot, cause six wounds, IG player removes his casualties. Now, before you do anything else, you have to determine if they are or are not still locked in combat. If they are still locked in combat, they do not need to take a morale test for the shooting. Reason? Any unit who is assaulted while falling back automatically regroups. Since they are still locked in combat, even if they failed they would instantly regroup due to being in the assault. If you find that they are no longer locked, they would be treated as outside the assault for all purposes, including you shooting at them with other troops and them having to take morale tests for losing 25% casualties.

As to shooting at a squad in close combat with another unit the answer is no. Even if the wargear says the bearer can fire it even if in the assault, this does not allow you to fire it at a different unit in an assault. (One could actually argue that you couldn't even shoot it at the unit you were in CC with, though this would be nonsensicle, even if it obeys the letter of the law.) This is assuming of course it does not specifically state that it can be fired into close combat.

This is my interpretation of it anyhow.

 

[LongBeard]

It specifically says it is treated as shooting and in the shooting phase

If thats exactly what the codex says then you can't use It as you can't make a shooting attack while locked In combat. :?

 

[Warboss Dakka]

If it specifically says he can use it even while in base to base contact, then yes he can shoot it while in an assault. The question is can he shoot it at the squad he's in an assault with or does he have to target a unit that's not engaged. Because it has only a 6 inch range I'd assume he can fire it at a unit he's engaged with but could not fire it at a unit who's engaged with a different squad.

To clarify:
The unit with the banner can use the banner even if locked in the assault. The unit with the banner can fire the banner at a unit the banner bearer is engaged with. The banner cannot be fired at a unit locked in the assault if the banner bearer is not engaged with it.

This is how I interpret it.