Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just bought a bunch of stuff to use for a Chaos Marine army. I think I figured out how I want to use it, but I haven't had much time to mull it over. I bought 30 Chaos Marines, 5 Terminators, 2 Rhinos, 3 Obliterators and 5 Havocs. From my Daemon army (parts of which I intend to use here), I have 2 Daemon Princes, plenty of options for a Greater Daemon, well over 100 various Lesser Daemons and a Soul Grinder that my friends have unanimously told me to use as a Defiler instead of actually buying one. We're also not picky at all about "counts as" as long as it's pointed out clearly before the game, and/or possibly written down, so for example I could use the one box of Havocs as 4 guys with Lascannons.

Just because I'm so demon heavy, and because it would be nice to have a semi-Fluffy army as opposed to my obnoxiously Undivided army (the demon army I typically use is roughly half Tzeentch half Nurgle, lol!) someone on here suggested I try to make them Word Bearers. If there's something I should change to make them closer to that while still viable, please let me know. Mostly, though, I just want to make sure I'll actually stand a chance while using this army.

Well, here it is. My math skills are a bit lacking, but I believe this came to 2502 points.


HQ:
-Daemon Prince (Wings, Doombolt)
-Daemon Prince (Wings, Doombolt)
-Greater Daemon

Elites:
-Terminators x5 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Champions x5, Chain Fists x5, Combi-Meltas x5)
-Chosen x7 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion, Lascannon, Meltaguns x4)
-Chosen x7 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion, Lascannon, Meltaguns x4)

Heavy Support:
-Defiler (With flamer and autocannon replaced with close combat weapons)
-Obliterators x3

Troops:
-Chaos Marines x10 (Champion, Icon of Chaos Glory, Lascannon, Meltagun)
--Rhino, Extra Armour, Havoc Launcher
-Chaos Marines x10 (Champion, Icon of Chaos Glory, Lascannon, Meltagun)
--Rhino, Extra Armour, Havoc Launcher
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5


C&C please. I'm quite the noob when it comes to Chaos Marines, so be ruthless before I start opening boxes and putting stuff together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
well first I would drop the lascannons on the choosen squads. you really don't need them to sit back when you are spending the points to outflank and get a nice chunk of speial weapons. as for the lesser deamons I would group them together.( maybe 10 a group) usually 5 don't do anything or are an easy kill point
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
well first I would drop the lascannons on the choosen squads. you really don't need them to sit back when you are spending the points to outflank and get a nice chunk of speial weapons.

Should I just drop them or replace them with something else?

as for the lesser deamons I would group them together.( maybe 10 a group) usually 5 don't do anything or are an easy kill point

I mostly did that so I wouldn't get quite as screwed on Reserve rolls if I had a few bad ones, but I suppose I have enough to have quite a few and still use them in groups of 10.
So, do I have anything that's overly un-"Word Bearer"-like, or could I build them as an actual Word Bearer force with these?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
replace the lascannons with something else. if you are going up against hordes you can replace them with flamers and even with the points left over you might be able to give your DP's marks or even rhinos( if you want to buy them) for them

well sometimes that happens. but then you might get the other end of that and get all the stuff you want off the bat

also no there is nothing non- word bearers in there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
It would probably defeat the purpose for me to give the Chosen Rhinos. My plan for them was to Infiltrate them somewhere close to the enemy yet somewhat safe, and use them to bring in my demons (and possibly my Terminators, trying to decide if I want them in reserve or not.)

Wouldn't have a mark from a specific god be slightly contrary to the Word Bearers thing? I thought they were very strictly Undivided? Or is it more complicated than that?

So, is there anything else I should look into getting, or is this good enough for now? More Marines? A Predator? A Land Raider? I've heard only bad things about Possessed, but they sound pretty fitting for my army's general theme. How bad are they?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
I would say the only good way of using possessed is 3 units of 5 with a champ and cheapest icon, possibly in rhinos. Hold them in reserve and see what you get for daemonkin roll.

5 Possessed are slightly cheaper than 5 Chosen with icon, champ and with all melta. They are also fearless with S5 and an invulnerable save, but you can't guarantee what they will do. You can attach a lord with D-weapon to 2 of the squads in reserve giving you 3 chances to outflank in a GD or lord in enemy territory, with a cushion of invulnerable wounds. Otherwise, they will have a decent special power (tzeentch possessed with feel no pain perhaps would be fun) and arrive later in the game, but wherever you could use them the most as game has progressed, from your table edge. You have no control over when they will arrive, or how they arrive, or what they will best be able to do, but they make cheap counter unit to tie up/kill deepstrikers or outflankers, and rear armour. If I have the rules correct, you could potentially (at great cost and a small chance) outflank Abaddon joined to possessed in a landraider, Typhus joined to possessed in a landraider, and 3 Champs for a turn 3 GD, on turn 2 (which would be hilarious) or about a 50% chance of at least a Champion + Icon outflanking. Uncertain if only the dedicated rhino would get outflank, or that by having Unit inside landraider during deployment would give everything a outflank arriving together. If you go first deploy, if you go second reserve. In reserve, once the game has begun, your opponent might be wary when he knows after one of his turns, a Landraider could pop out of nowhere (possibly in his tablequarter) full of CC doom.


Chosen wouldn't be able to do this, but they don't need a lord when they are using DP's. Chosen will always get to outflank and are able to fire weapons making them a solid choice. They can also infiltrate and you can customize them for their role. This lets you have a firm control on what you want to accomplish with them. Plus anti-tank weapons really help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Yeah, Chosen sound overall more useful, especially for how I'm planning to use them, not to mention easier to put together. It's too bad, Possessed sound like they were a really cool idea that GW just didn't do quite right.

So, this is probably good enough for now? Nothing else I really need to pick up soon?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
After a few games, you can decide if you want to phase out LD and replace with Obliterators depending on how they work for you, and an additional CSM squad or something. If it works for you then I would say it was worth it buying minimal stuff and still getting a decent army.

edit: if you enjoy books, there is a decent wordbearers trilogy, and HH book available. I find reading the deathguard HH get's me enthused about painting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I'll take a look at those books, I've always been curious about them.

Although, I might have to shift my focus a bit. Long story short, I picked up the check at dinner tonight with my roommates, and in exchange they agreed to paint my Chaos Marines for me. However, he hates painting in red for some reason, so he's going to paint them with something similar to the Black Legion scheme. Is there any special way the Black Legion fights or the forces they use, or are they sort of the generalize version of Chaos?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Black legion are the general army you can run. They pretty much have a little of everything so you won't have to worry about sticking to fluff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
670 Posts
HQ:
-Daemon Prince (Wings, Doombolt)
-Daemon Prince (Wings, Doombolt)
-Greater Daemon

Elites:
-Terminators x5 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Champions x5, Chain Fists x5, Combi-Meltas x5)
-Chosen x7 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion, Lascannon, Meltaguns x4)
-Chosen x7 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion, Lascannon, Meltaguns x4)

Heavy Support:
-Defiler (With flamer and autocannon replaced with close combat weapons)
-Obliterators x3

Troops:
-Chaos Marines x10 (Champion, Icon of Chaos Glory, Lascannon, Meltagun)
--Rhino, Extra Armour, Havoc Launcher
-Chaos Marines x10 (Champion, Icon of Chaos Glory, Lascannon, Meltagun)
--Rhino, Extra Armour, Havoc Launcher
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5


C&C please. I'm quite the noob when it comes to Chaos Marines, so be ruthless before I start opening boxes and putting stuff together.
You don't need doombolts on your daemon princes. I see your thinking in using them to pop the transport and then assault but you've only got one shot; use another unit for transport popping and the princes assault infantry. Give the princes warptime btw, a much better power.

Greater daemon is ok.

Terminators are really messed up. Firstly upgrading them to champions is a waste, you only get a extra attack. You want extra attack take MoK probably cheaper. You do not need a full chain fists either really. Take one maybe two chain fists if you like and give the rest combi weapons, if you can justify the cost and have the points consider a single lightning claw to re-roll to wound ;)

Here's a link to some chaos terminator tactica on my blog: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2010/02/chaos-space-marine-chosen-tactica.html

Chosen are mega messed up too. You have a long range anti tank weapon and then several short range ones in a rhino - you cannot move and shoot heavy weapons so keep still the meltas won't be in range or you move then lascannon cannot shoot. Extra armour is debatable.

Here's a link to my blog for chosen tactica: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2010/02/chaos-space-marine-chosen-tactica.html

Deflier is messed up, you've got a short ranged flamer, long range autocannon and the battle cannon. You cannot shoot ordnance and another weapon so the autocannon is wasted, the flamer is ok because you want to move into assault. Though tbh, after using vindicators then defilers I've gone back to vindicators as they're better IMO.

All troops are messed up. Why? Weapon synergy like all the other units, this is actually a common problem in this list. You have long range tank and short range. Take dual special weapons only. Really you need more chaos marines, another unit should be fine.

Lesser daemons are ok but in large units, 5 will get shot to pieces in no time.

Hope that helps mate. But you need to get heavy support, consider obliterators as they rock.

Any more help feel free to drop me a PM :security:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
You don't need doombolts on your daemon princes. I see your thinking in using them to pop the transport and then assault but you've only got one shot; use another unit for transport popping and the princes assault infantry. Give the princes warptime btw, a much better power.

You're probably right. I've been working on some alternate lists I haven't posted yet, and I'm using Warptime in them instead.

Greater daemon is ok.

Terminators are really messed up. Firstly upgrading them to champions is a waste, you only get a extra attack. You want extra attack take MoK probably cheaper. You do not need a full chain fists either really. Take one maybe two chain fists if you like and give the rest combi weapons, if you can justify the cost and have the points consider a single lightning claw to re-roll to wound ;)

I mostly have them as champions because I wanted them as a last resort if all my other Champions die before my Greater Daemon shows up. Ideally I'd use the Chosen, or the Marine ones if they're dead, but the games I play in can get a bit bloody, so I just wanted to be prepared.

Chosen are mega messed up too. You have a long range anti tank weapon and then several short range ones in a rhino - you cannot move and shoot heavy weapons so keep still the meltas won't be in range or you move then lascannon cannot shoot. Extra armour is debatable.

Actually I don't have the Chosen in a rhino, just the Marines. The Chosen I was planning to Infiltrate into position so they could drop the Daemons (and possibly the Terminators) up near the enemy. I don't plan to move them much at all, hence the Lascannon, but I also wanted to load up on meltaguns in case my opponent goes mech heavy. They've all got bolt pistols too, so I figured the diversity was worth it.

Deflier is messed up, you've got a short ranged flamer, long range autocannon and the battle cannon. You cannot shoot ordnance and another weapon so the autocannon is wasted, the flamer is ok because you want to move into assault. Though tbh, after using vindicators then defilers I've gone back to vindicators as they're better IMO.

Actually if you read it, I took off the flamer and autocannon and replaced them with more close combat weapons. I have three reasons for using the defiler instead of the vindicator. #1, the range is longer. #2, it can also handle close combat. #3, I already have a Soul Grinder model, and my friends agreed to let me have it count as a defiler so I won't need to buy one.

All troops are messed up. Why? Weapon synergy like all the other units, this is actually a common problem in this list. You have long range tank and short range. Take dual special weapons only. Really you need more chaos marines, another unit should be fine.

Same idea with the Chosen as far as weapons go. I was hoping to keep them more or less in the back most of the time, with the various daemons, the princes and the defiler keeping the enemy more or less on their side as much as possible.

Lesser daemons are ok but in large units, 5 will get shot to pieces in no time.

Yup, already planning to reorganize that and consolidate them a bit.

Hope that helps mate. But you need to get heavy support, consider obliterators as they rock.

I've already got a unit of three obliterators in there....

Any more help feel free to drop me a PM :security:
Will do. Thanks for the advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
670 Posts
Well with x amount of champions in CSM squads just make sure your champions die last. Personally I wouldn't lose a terminator, but if you do want a champion then have just one - not a unit full as you don't need full champions.

Well you will still have to move with the meltas, you don't think a tank is going to come near you do you? Also they'll die rapidly doing the tactic you suggested. They have no range and only one anti tank weapon at range. Take plasmas - did you look at the link I gave you btw?

I perhaps missed a updated list. While what you said is very true about the defiler I found them wishy-washy and let's be fair they're WS3 so not brilliant in combat either. It's role is just too confused.

Like I said about the chosen, no one will come close to those meltas. You want to camp back take obliterators, or havocs. Oh, indeed you do have obliterators already but multiple units are better than one because what will happen when they feel plasma wrath? They'll die and you have no obliterators left, easy to target prioritise but when you've got two it's all about unit redundancy you see :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
I like the weapon setup of lascannon and melta on the chosen. This gives them a choice when infiltrating. Far away as support, or close to an objective for LD to score. It may sound like a bad idea, but you could split the 3 Oblits into a 1 man and a 2 man. With an obliterator summoned to the chosen, that pesky lascannon squad in the corner now also has 1 of everything else, with daemons to hamper enemy units.

One defiler will likely be killed pretty quick. People just like them. Also you don't have many targets being daemon heavy. I would say keep him in reserve. You can position him for the best target with no cover save when he walks on, or assault up to 18" from your table edge. Goes along with the surprise element.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Here's my updated list.

HQ:
-Daemon Prince (Wings, Warptime)
-Daemon Prince (Wings, Warptime)
-Greater Daemon

Elites:
-Terminators x5 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Chain Fists x5, Combi-Meltas x5)
-Chosen x7 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion, Missile Launcher, Meltaguns x4)
-Chosen x7 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion, Missile Launcher, Meltaguns x4)

Heavy Support:
-Defiler (With flamer and autocannon replaced with close combat weapons)
-Obliterators x3

Troops:
-Chaos Marines x10 (Champion, Icon of Chaos Glory, Missile Launcher, Meltagun)
--Rhino, Extra Armour, Havoc Launcher
-Chaos Marines x10 (Champion, Icon of Chaos Glory, Missile Launcher, Meltagun)
--Rhino, Extra Armour, Havoc Launcher
-Lesser Daemons x8
-Lesser Daemons x8
-Lesser Daemons x8
-Lesser Daemons x8
-Lesser Daemons x8


In the end I decided to keep the chain fists on the terminators. I have plenty of anti-infantry in the form of my daemons, princes and now the missile launchers, and with missile launchers instead of lascannons, I figured I could use all the anti-tank I can get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,464 Posts
HQ:
-Daemon Prince (Wings, Doombolt)
-Daemon Prince (Wings, Doombolt)
-Greater Daemon
:) I like. Well, except for the doombolt. You'd be better off with warptime even at the higher points. Maybe even MoT/MoS as well.

Elites:
-Terminators x5 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Champions x5, Chain Fists x5, Combi-Meltas x5)
-Chosen x7 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion, Lascannon, Meltaguns x4)
-Chosen x7 (Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion, Lascannon, Meltaguns x4)
The Termies are a little pricey for my tastes but thats just preference. I like the Chosen, though I would give them 2/3 melta at most. I like the idea as using them to deploy an obscene amount of Daemons

Heavy Support:
-Defiler (With flamer and autocannon replaced with close combat weapons)
-Obliterators x3
Split the Oblits into a 2x squad and a 1x squad. You can shoot them at the same thing, but it forces your opponent to shoot at two units.

Troops:
-Chaos Marines x10 (Champion, Icon of Chaos Glory, Lascannon, Meltagun)
--Rhino, Extra Armour, Havoc Launcher
-Chaos Marines x10 (Champion, Icon of Chaos Glory, Lascannon, Meltagun)
--Rhino, Extra Armour, Havoc Launcher
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5
-Lesser Daemons x5

Drop Extra Armor on the rhinos...lots of people swear by it, but I'm convinced its because they haven't played without it. There is no point in putting the CSM with a Las in a Rhino...if it moves, you can't shoot it. Instead, give them 2x meltas and use them aggressively. The only other advice I have is taking 5 squads of 7 L.Daemons instead of 7 squads of 5. The LD spam seems like a fun idea. Let me know how it works.


C&C please. I'm quite the noob when it comes to Chaos Marines, so be ruthless before I start opening boxes and putting stuff together.
:) Hope that helps a bit. You just want to make sure you survive till turn 4 to have a good shot of all your Daemons coming in.


****EDIT****Crap, Ninja'd. New list looks pretty solid :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
My friends like to do fairly big games, so I'm considering something to fill in that third Heavy Support slot eventually. I was considering a Predator with lascannon turrets and heavy bolter sponsons, but would more obliterators, or possibly havocs, be a better choice?

EDIT: And by the way, I voted for Jeff after seeing your sig. ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
670 Posts
My friends like to do fairly big games, so I'm considering something to fill in that third Heavy Support slot eventually. I was considering a Predator with lascannon turrets and heavy bolter sponsons, but would more obliterators, or possibly havocs, be a better choice?

EDIT: And by the way, I voted for Jeff after seeing your sig. ;-)
No it wouldn't be a good choice because lascannon is anti tank and heavy bolter is anti troop and very light armour. Neither can mix the others roles. Best take autolas instead, much cheaper too ;)

[Personally I'd take more obliterators.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,464 Posts
Olbliterators offer a large amount of flexibility while putting out a lot of fire-power. It often takes more then one shot to off the squad, whereas a Pred dies to one gun.

I vote Oblits.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top