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I knew there wasn't one, but it has been kind of eating away at me lately as to why the Bolters don't have stocks.

Is there any GW source that says they don't need one? I spend enough time shooting for recreational purposes to have a general grasp of fire arms, and I couldn't fathom shooting an automatic weapon without a stock. Well there is always hip firing, but how is that remotely accurate.
 

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It's rather funny but I understand SM s not needing them do to all the gene seed superhuman blah blah blah. At the same time why would a space ork shoota need a stock ? Idk but I'm sure it's only for style and or a blunt weapon handle if need be.
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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If I remember correctly the second edition weapons compendium stated that bolters don't produce any kick so for that reason a stock isn't needed. In addition the bolters sight's link up to the HUD in the Space Marines helmet thus meaning they don't need to shoulder the weapon to get an accurate shot. Another interesting thing is apparently they fire caseless ammo so they don't technically need an ejection port but the rule of cool over rides that.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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Jacobite hit all the major points. The only thing I'd add is that, even if there was significant recoil (and some sources, primary literary ones, state that there is), a Space Marine's natural strength alone - never mind when augmented by power armour - would be enough to compensate for it. Beyond that, as Jacobite already stated, any benefit a stock would provide in terms of aiming (besides eliminating recoil) are trumped by the sync between a Space Marine's auto-senses and his weapon.
 

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Not to throw a grenade in the gears, BUT...normal humans do use bolters and in the 5th ed it said that if humans used a SM bolter it would break every bone in that arm, shoulder, and ribs, unless they had a augmented arm. There have also been reference in several BL books that humans can't fire a SM bolter and even when they fire a non SM bolter the kick is pretty high.
 

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a Space Marine's natural strength alone - never mind when augmented by power armour - would be enough to compensate for it
Doesn't the occasional Guardsman use it? Or is that something I've just seen on the table top..
 

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boltguns.
Sigh and once again I get ignored.

Begs to differ.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod1900033
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod40004a

That's not even mentioning BL books.
Fire Caste, Space Marine (albeit as old as sin) tech gang was using bolters, Imperial Guard Omnibus 1, Hammer of the Emperor(IG Omnibus 2)

EDIT: Ok from now on I'm making all my words orange.
 

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http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ5MlgxNDMy/z/HC4AAMXQbjxRBXov/$T2eC16RHJG!E9nm3qWDNBRB(ouG5yw~~60_35.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Warhammer-Imperial-Guard-officer-w-Heavy-bolter-makes-great-Sgt-Harker-metal-/00/s/MTE1MlgxNTM2/z/q04AAOxy~ilSSPGK/$(KGrHqF,!qcFJDEs9N2zBSSPGKI+r!~~60_35.JPG

(I use this one as Marbo, have just replaced bolter with assaasins pistol, and green stuffed it)

These ones. 2nd edition.

Thought this has probably been retconned...
 

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Sigh and once again I get ignored.

Begs to differ.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod1900033
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440247a&prodId=prod40004a

That's not even mentioning BL books.
Fire Caste, Space Marine (albeit as old as sin) tech gang was using bolters, Imperial Guard Omnibus 1, Hammer of the Emperor(IG Omnibus 2)

EDIT: Ok from now on I'm making all my words orange.
lol good idea cos I completey missed that.
 

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Sigh and once again I get ignored.

Begs to differ.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...Id=prod1900033
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...dId=prod40004a

That's not even mentioning BL books.
Fire Caste, Space Marine (albeit as old as sin) tech gang was using bolters, Imperial Guard Omnibus 1, Hammer of the Emperor(IG Omnibus 2)

EDIT: Ok from now on I'm making all my words orange.
Those aren't normal Guardsmen sir, those are Catachans :grin:

The basic principle of a bolt round is a small traditional charge (like our guns of today use) that's only strong enough to push the round out of the barrel, where the bolt will then basically become a missile. This might not produce enough kick back, but then again it's rather muddled if so many sources contradict each other. As for Guardsmen aiming them, maybe they have augmented eyes that act like Space Marie visors.
 

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The books reference non catachans using bolters.

EDIT: Did a quick search boltguns, legally obtained, are reserved for high ranking COs, Platoon commander and up, along with commissars. Storm troopers also can obtain boltguns enmass
It was just a joke haha I think it's rather difficult to debate with so may written sources contradicting others in regards to things like aiming and recoil. Guardsmen could just be using smaller versions of boltguns that fire smaller calibers of bolt rounds. Then again maybe there's just been no general consensus on this matter amongst all the Black Library writers and as such we're left with this mess.
 

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.......again
I'll restate what I said on page 1, 5th ed Imperial Guard do not use SM bolters as in multiple sources the best case the Guardsmen will dislocate his arm and worst case he will shatter his arm shoulder and anything the gun hits. Therefore they use a smaller scale bolter.

Despite the smaller size the IG bolter still has hell of a kick.

And if I have to restate one more emperor damned thing I'm killing a puppy.
 

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Right, sorry I didn't see your response earlier. This would also explain how units like Warrior Acolytes could use them effectively, even without power armor.
 

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Guardsmen could just be using smaller versions of boltguns that fire smaller calibers of bolt rounds.
We know that all bolt-rounds (whether made for Astartes or humans) have the same caliber. We also know that the rounds made for human botlguns are scaled down for humans. So human bolt-rounds are either shorter, less dense, or contain less propellant charge...or some combination of the three.

Platoon commanders
Dunno if they're really offered to lowly lieutenants as a general rule of thumb.

Storm troopers also can obtain boltguns enmass
Outside of the table top...source?

the best case the Guardsmen will dislocate his arm and worst case he will shatter his arm shoulder and anything the gun hits.
Which novel does it say this?

I mean we've seen Bragg and Harker run around with a heavy bolter. They're hardly atypical guardsman, but they fire those weapons from a braced standing position. If they can fire a heavy bolter, I'd suppose a sturdy, well-trained man could fire a SM bolter, assuming he could heft it in the first place.

The recoil is purposely designed to be minimal.
 

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If I remember correctly the second edition weapons compendium stated that bolters don't produce any kick so for that reason a stock isn't needed. In addition the bolters sight's link up to the HUD in the Space Marines helmet thus meaning they don't need to shoulder the weapon to get an accurate shot. Another interesting thing is apparently they fire caseless ammo so they don't technically need an ejection port but the rule of cool over rides that.
Caseless weapons do require an ejection port in case a round misfires.
 

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lieutenants Outside of the table top...source? Which novel does it say this?
.

The Background fluff of IG Codexes....codexie 2nd-5th edition. "Have access to advance weapons including blah blah, bolt weapons.' Page 96 IG Codex 5th edition

The Boltgun, also commonly referred to as the Bolter, is the standard weapon of the Adeptus Astartes and Adepta Sororitas. A .75 caliber weapon, the Boltgun fires a self-propelled explosive 'bolt' which explodes with devastating effect once it has penetrated its target, effectively blowing it apart from the inside. Finely hand-crafted by Space Marine Forges or the Adeptus Mechanicus, Boltguns are heavy, sturdy weapons with a powerful recoil normal humans would find difficult to handle. Index Astartes III.

"The weight of each weapon would require most humans to use a supporting brace, with hand-grips larger than any normal human could manage. However, even if a normal human were to fire the boltgun, the resulting recoil would rip their arm from its socket. Normal humans found to be in possession of even a single Astartes bolt round, much less a boltgun, can expect a swift justice for their crimes" Dark Heresy: Inquisitorial Handbook.
 

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We know that all bolt-rounds (whether made for Astartes or humans) have the same caliber. We also know that the rounds made for human botlguns are scaled down for humans. So human bolt-rounds are either shorter, less dense, or contain less propellant charge...or some combination of the three.
My bet, given that both bolters have approximately the same killing power (table top at least), would be that 'human' model bolters have less initial charge than Astartes ones. Space Marines are designed to operate in close so its important that their bolters are fully effective right out of the barrel, requiring (I'd assume for such a large bullet) quite a substantial charge and thus arm shattering recoil. Regular humans on the other hand don't really like to fight that close so sacrificing up-close killing power for reduced recoil, with no loss in ranged killing power, seems like a good call.
 
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