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Okay, based on the new Grey Knights codex, the Daemons codex, and the Tyranid codex, what hope does the Imperium possibly have? I mean, the tyranids are destroying the Imperium from the outside, and Chaos is destroying them from the inside. Is there truely no hope for the Imperium like the fluff says?

First in the Tyranid codex, it says that the Imp. Guard will have to increase the draft by 500% to have a chance at defeating Leviathan. Which means that every civilian under Imperial rule will need to be drafted into the Imperial Navy. Even if they do defeat this Hive Fleet, a bigger and stronger fleet is still on its way. It seems as though the fluff writers have doomed the Imperium to the Tyranids.

Now, the Imperium also faces seemingly inevitable demise from Chaos. In the new Grey Knights codex, it says that Justicar Thawn is part of a prophecy where is says "the Dark Gods will have their victory, and human civilization will fall." I understand that it makes him look all brave and everything, but that is well beyond the line of bravery, and into stupidity.

It certainly seems like the writers have stuck the Imperium between a rock and a hard place. I find it rather funny that I care so much about a fictonal race based off of a table top game, but I mean come on. Nothing in any form of fiction should be 200% set to fail.
 

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And that's not all. According to the most recent rulebook the Golden Throne is failing and there's no way to fix it. So yah, the Imperium is pooched.
 

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Don't forget that the most technologically advanced race with a hatred for all things living in 40k is still only coming out of hibernation, and there's a problem with the golden throne and they've lost the warranty. Because of this the astronomican is getting dimmer, and soon warp travel may be too dangerous to undertake. Also, the golden throne is the only thing keeping the breached web way portal under the Imperial Palace sealed. If it fails completely, Terra could be consumed by a massive demonic incursion.

So yeah, there doesn't seem to be much hope for the Imperium.

Or is there? It would appear there is a portable alternative to the astronomican in the care of the Blood Ravens, and most of the missing primarchs conveniently vowed to return when they are most needed before disappearing into the warp or webway, places that mess with space and time, making it not too implausible they could still be alive.

The existence of the SW 13th company 10k years after entering the EoT, and now a frankly stupid piece of fluff about a mere GK being able to wander the warp unmolested, all give credence to the possible, however improbable, return of the Primarchs.

So maybe things aren't quite as bad as they seem.
 

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yeah you've got constant clean up of Orks that needs to be done, and always the possibilty with them actually having enough unification to roll through systems like they're nothing (which is why Ghazghkull has a whole fleet hunting him down). Then you have eldar dark eldar and tau threats which are not big ones but they certainly dont help the situation.

Many players and fans have speculated that GW will eventually change the Imperium from being the ultimate empire in the galaxy to an empire that is truly laying on its death bed. As the eldar have told humanity time and time again, the Imperium will not rule the galaxy forever, their time will come.

Now space marines and such would still be the forefront of GW marketing I'm sure, but they would likely make the chapters much more independent, less and less serving the ideals of the Imperium. Most of them would surely refuse to accept the loss of the Emperor completely and would still fight either for his name or his spirit.

The IG may change from being seen as innumerable to we actually have to be careful now and not just throw away men making them a bit more elite and other growing armies more horde like where they are currently MEQ. Like if chaos gets tons more followers from victories they might have tons more little guys in the armies like cultists or just chaos marines who are not nearly as skilled as their ancient brethren.

But, as always GW makes it so there is no guarantee of anything, they are smart enough to keep their options open to change things according to the current tide of opinions when the time comes, or whichever product line is the cheapest for them to produce haha.

As Khorne's fist mentioned they are keeping their options open by saying that the Imperium might in fact be doomed but they also have enough good things going for them, or could have enough blind luck to keep them going strong so it could go either way.

If tyranids were running all over the galaxy and Necrons are appearing more and more all the time then eventually they'd be fighting each other A LOT more so everyone woulds till be keeping each other in check. This is 40k after all, and there is only war. :victory:
 

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Chaos at the very least is being contained, or at the very least the same as it has always been. Orks are just being Orks and will always be Orks, they won't destroy the Imperium themselves.

It's the Tyranis and Necrons that are the real problem.
 

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Theres always hope, it's just a very slight hope. Was there no hope humanity as a whole would have turned to chaos already. There are also gaps in the problems facing the Imperium.

For example, they say the Emperors light is "failing" and the Astronomican's light grows dimmer, but why? The Emperor doesn't power the Astronomican, it was on during the Great Crusade when the Emperor was off leading the armies of mankind. They also say that the emperor "directs" the light but how did he direct the light when he was on crusade?

Then you have the Necrons. They went to sleep millions of years ago on tomb worlds. Now, think of how much our world has shifted in millions of years. How many tomb worlds could have been lost due to tectonic activity? How many stasis systems could have failed within that time and caused the Necrons to finally "die?" Theres an instance on one necron world where the necrons will only attack the major city at a specific time like clock work due to their higher functioning lords being destroyed.

Regardless I think the Imperium will fail. Not that humanity will be wiped out, but the Imperium won't last beyond m42. Humanity always has hope.
 

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There is always hope the the Imperium of Man. ---> The Terminus Decree. :spiteful:
 

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well, I doubt GW is about to commit fluff suicide, it's not a very smart business move...

it will be interesting to see how GW "saves" the Imperium, I mean there's no way we're going to be stuck in the End Times forever...or is there : /

come on GW, show some originality for fucksakes and do some interesting, like a primarch coming back or something like that!
 

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Do not listen to this heretic propaganda, The IOM will be much harder to conquer than it seems and the only things likely to do it are the Tyrands or the Necrons.

First of all we must factor in the variables and what is likely to happen. The Eldar know they cannot stop the Tyranids, The IOM knows that they MIGHT be able to stop them if they open up a galaxy wide draft, and the orks are stupid and easily manipulated.

What I think would most likely happen is one of two things:

1. The IOM and eldar form a alliance because there is almost certain death if they do not join forces. The Eldar then do the normal trickery to get the, for the most part stupid, orks to start a massive waaagh against Nids and Necrons. They would almost certainly do it as they are easily manipulated and its even easier to do so if you promise them a bloodier fight that the galaxy has ever seen.

2. Very close to the first only the Eldar dont form a pact with the space marines and they manipulate the IOM along with the Orks.


Tau are too small to matter

The chaos gods would probably force their own armys to lose or join the fight(with the orks, eldar and iom on their side) If the IOM falls the chaos gods lose their way to gain massive amounts of power. No normal humans? nurgle cant make them sick and suffer. No normal humans? Huge battles stop happening and there is very little blood for the blood god. No more humans? Nothing living to feed slaneshes thirst for pleasure. No more humans? Tzeentch might be ok here but he cant do anything if 3 of his brethren are against him.

The Dark Eldar would likely join the fight on the IOM's side also. If their are no more souls to steal they will die.

However I could see the Necrons and Nids forming a alliance of sorts. The Nids to my knowledge just eat up the bio matter to get stronger where as the Necrons capture souls to feed to their gods. The nids just seem to eat everything but the Necron gods are smart and would likely send their troops in the wake of the swarm to gobble up the souls left behind.

The IOM and the Eldar have big aces in their sleeves, the more likey to work(though cant happen) is the eldar sacrifice themselves to awaken their super god(though I cant remember its name, though likely to happen it wont due to it requires a popular race to die which GW wont do) And the other Ace which is a two way possibility that is less likely to happen but almost certain to happen Is the Star Child theory/ The primarchs returning and figuring out how to resurrect the emperor.

The final variable that I can think of, though since im tired im sure im missing a few) is the Apex Twins. Their might is literally unmeasured, we dont know how strong they are but the entire galaxy is on the line and they would have to fight or die. Would they be strong enough to make a difference? I dont know, but its POSSIBLE that they could fight with the strength of 100,000,000 space marines, They single handedly mind raped a black ship so I would guess they are very strong.

Another scenario I think could happen is the Twins decide that they are the only way for the galaxy to live and 1. Sacrifice themselves to make a new emperor (assuming they are strong enough to do what the orig guys did to make the emperor) or 2 let the golden throne consume them and hope its enough to shock paddle the emperor onto his feet.

Another thing just came to mind. IIRC Mangnus the red was orig a loyalist, he could potentially shake off the daemon in him and have his cursed legion join the fight or even do as the twins could do and sacrifice themselves to resurrect/create a new emperor

Sure you could say that no one could shake off a daemon but your only grounds for that are no one has before. Magnus is a powerful psyker, if anyone can do it, GW would let it be him. (Also isnt alpha legion, loyalist wananbes?)
 

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You are doomed. Accept it. :threaten:

Nothing can save you now...


The Hive Fleets approach from all corners of the void...

The Star borne and their deathless armies awake...

The green tide will always wear on your shores...

And the denizens of the Warp await to feast on your souls...
 

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...all give credence to the possible, however improbable, return of the Primarchs.

So maybe things aren't quite as bad as they seem.
Whilst that is true, I fail to see how the return of some of the loyalist Primarchs would really make any meaningful difference to the already mentioned threats.

Chaos at the very least is being contained
I beg to differ.

Chaos is the sole reason the Imperium finds itself in the position it is in. It directly caused the Horus Heresy, incapacitated the Emperor, and doomed the Imperium to paranoia, barbarity and heresy.

The mortal forces of Chaos themselves (in the 13th Black Crusade) have recently forced the largest mobilisation of Imperial forces in ten thousand years. This just shows the extent of the threat posed by mortal Chaos worshippers, not including the main threat posed by Chaos itself; its ability to corrupt.

Chaos cannot be contained, and in my view poses a much greater threat (not just to the Imperium) than the C'tan or Tyranids ever could.

Theres always hope, it's just a very slight hope. Was there no hope humanity as a whole would have turned to chaos already. There are also gaps in the problems facing the Imperium.
Theres a difference between false hope and hope though. :p
 

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On COTE's note about the loyalist primarchs returning not having much affect, according to the Fluff around Lion El'Johnson that Luther keeps saying, when Lion wakes up he will lead the imperium in a crusade that surpasses even the emperors great crusade.

As for the Tyranids and Necrons fighting, that is extremely unlikely unless they both attack the same world as Tyranids have ignored all of the necron worlds because they are lifeless tomb worlds.
 

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yeah and this is definitely some good info right here as well. I cant say I understand the ordo-hydra part though, at least just not from what that lexicanum page has.
 

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All I can say is that the Imperium will fall, only thing that remains to be seen is when. As long as the astronomican is guiding the tyranids in and demons can always come back, no hhope for humans at all
 
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