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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've been thinking about something ever since I started playing my first army (Dark Eldar) waaay back in the beginning of 3rd edition...
Why don't armies capture stuff from their opponents for their own use?
I can easily see a Chaos Lord snatching up a Storm Shield from a fallen opponent.
Dark Eldar hit their targets in order to steal their people and tech... where are the Firepikes, Multi-melters, and so on? Lightning claws? Ya, as a Lord I'd want my Agoniser, but a Sybarite might like something different (perhaps he/ she didn't have access to an Agoniser, so they took the next best thing after killing the Space Marine Sergeant)...

Which leads me to another question... why do you have to allocate wounds to a better weapon at all? If I'm using a Splinter Rifle and the warrior next to me has a Blaster, he gets killed, guess what I'm picking up...?

Had I written the rules, I'd just have members of a different army pay the points + 25% to use the gear from some other army. It would represent the use of captured armaments (which makes sense), but would also make it a points dump so you'd have to consider the pros and cons of upgrading thusly. This would be an especially cool option for Kill Teams, or if you're making an army whose "fluff" is to fight a specific opponent more than some other.
 

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I think the major problem is that some codices are balanced around the fact that they don't have certain things, while others have upgrades that in their own codices are not overpowering, but are enormously cheap for what they do in others.

For example, giving Wave Serpents (or any vehicle, for that matter) old smoke (all penetrating hits are downgraded to glancing hits) for four points (note that since this is an alternate kind of smoke, it could be used in addition to normal smoke launchers) is extremely game-changing.

Another good example is artificer armor. For space marine captains, the upgrade from a 3+ save to a 2+ save is priced about right. But give an ork warboss that, upgrading his 6+ save to a monstrously better 2+ (or even better, give him a storm shield too) makes him infinitely more survivable.

Finally, many of the tau upgrades would be insane additions to space marine or imperial guard vehicles. Shooting as fast for a minuscule amount of points? Getting a 4+ cover save on that predator for close to nothing? Or maybe allowing those sergeants to take markerlights so their whole squad will hit on 2+? These things would unbalance the game against codices like tau and necrons, who have very little ability to use such upgrades to their advantage.

In short, I think that it's worth trying, but due to the nature of some codices, the system definitely needs parameters, not only on who could take enemy gear (i assume this would be only models with options, such as a sergeant, but not a normal space marine or guardsman), but on what upgrades could be used.
 

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I think it would be cool if they had something like in WFB, where there is some universal equipment (Sword of Striking, Dispel Scroll) and some race-specific equipment (Itxi Grubs, Thundermace). So, all races can have Lasguns, Autoguns, Laspistols, Autopistols, Melta Bomb equivalents, Kraks etc. but only Tau get the Pulse Rifle and only the Necrons get Gauss weaponry.

Midnight
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Because 40k is based on grimdark, not kleptomania.
So... when I was in the army, I was a klepto for dropping the piece of crap M-16 for the AK-47 which didn't jam?
Grabbing something better than what you've got isn't kleptomania, it's survivability.
 

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There are a variety of reasons some of the different factions do not make use of the weapons, gear, and general technology of other races.

Forces of the Imperium of man do not because the only others to use stuff from are either alien or traitor/heretic and therefore tainted in some way. (Remember that for better or for worse, the Imperium is woefully xenophobic and against just about all forms of corruptions.)

As far as not using the gear of fallen members of other organizations, the soldiers in questions are either not trained to handle such equipment (your standard guardsman does not have the training to properly and fully utilize a suit of power armour) or the gear is not the right type or size (a space marine will have a hard time using a regular human laspistol as his body structure is much larger, and the same for a normal man or woman using a marine bolter.)

Chaos..well chaos technically does use the gear of their enemies but more often than not they cause so much damage that certain things are unusable. (Take the storm shield, chances are you probably need to destroy it in order to kill the wielder, in which case the storm shield is gone.) Plus many things used chaos forces are more run down, and delicate or high maintanance equipment will not last long.

Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Tau do not use the technology of others because their own technology is more advanced/better or because they cannot. (Tau are smaller than normal humans and only have four fingers, their technology is awkward for humans to even try and use.)

Dark Eldar do not use Eldar stuff because craftworld Eldar weapons and technology are based heavily around their psychic abilities, something the Dark Eldar actually shun or suppress. Eldar don't use Dark Eldar stuff due to that lack of psychic aid, a lot harder for you to work on senses that need to be heightened.

Nid's...well why use someone else's shit when you can just adapt better things?

Necrons, already have some of the best technology, no need to use anything else. By the same token, others can't use Necron technology because it is either xeno in nature or to advanced to reverse engineer and use.

Orks, like chaos they make use of other technology but its so heavily modified, damaged, or run down you really can't tell. You can't use ork technology because of their own psychic potential, which makes weapons that should fall apart spray bullets, allows vehicles painted red to move faster, and orks painted blue to survive wounds that should kill them several times over.



I think thats just about everyone; in the end though, the races do not intermix weapons and gear anymore (like they did back in second edition) in order to maintain a balance. Fluffwise in times of desperation, an Eldar dire avenger might snatch up a splinter pistol to kill his foe, or an ork might use a heavy bolter, or a space marine a burst rifle, or a guardsman a pulse carbine. Its simply a balancing issue in game.
 

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Which leads me to another question... why do you have to allocate wounds to a better weapon at all? If I'm using a Splinter Rifle and the warrior next to me has a Blaster, he gets killed, guess what I'm picking up...?
It's a game mechanic designed to fix one of the biggest problems of previous editions, ie the special weapon/sgt/heavy weapon that was always the last man left in the unit. Forget fluff, real life, etc. It's a game mechanic. In other words, cause them's the rules.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It's a game mechanic designed to fix one of the biggest problems of previous editions, ie the special weapon/sgt/heavy weapon that was always the last man left in the unit. Forget fluff, real life, etc. It's a game mechanic. In other words, cause them's the rules.
How was it a problem?
Seems arbitrary.
Not trying to be obtuse, just sayin'...
 

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Rephrase, something the game designes saw as a problem. And in spite of the forget real life sttement, think about it. If I'm shooting at your unit, my number one target is the guy that can hurt me the most. Yet in the game, those models were invulnerable. Anyways, doesn't matter what any of us think of it, cause, as already stated, those are the rules (currently).
 

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Also, if you're shooting people, you aren't just shooting the PEOPLE, you're shooting them and all their stuff.
Great, you've got a plasma gun, oh look at that someone shot your gun and it exploded, you're dead, and I can't pick the thing up because half of it has shredded through your body, poor you.

Guns aren't invincible, they aren't hard to break with enough force.
Space Marines have special ammo packs for their Heavy weapons.
Maybe if they got shot, they fell forward and the gun got stuck under them; you aren't going to take 5 seconds to grab the gun if you're under fire are you?
 
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