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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a list I am thinking of taking to GT heat 1.

Chaos Lord: Twin Lightning Claws, Frags, Spiky Bits, Furious Charge, Infiltrate, Flight, Aura, Armour (186)

Chaos Marines: 5 marines, Las/Plas, Stealth Adept (100)

Chaos Marines: 5 marines, Las/Plas, Stealth Adept (100)

Chaos Marines: 5 marines, Heavy Bolter, Infiltrate (90)

Chaos Marines: 7 marines, 6 BP/CCW, 1 Melta. 1 Asp Champion PW/BP, Strength, All with Frags and Furious Charge: Rhino, Smoke, Extra Armour (240)

Chaos Marines: 7 marines, 5 BP/CCW, 1 Flamer, 1 Plasma Pistol. 1 Asp Champion PF/BP, Spiky Bits, All with Frags and Furious Charge and Infiltrate (222)

Havocs: 6 marines, 2 AutoCannons, 2 Missile Launchers, Stealth Adept, Tank hunters (188)

Predator: AutoCannon, HB sponsons, Mutated Hull, Deamonic, Parasitic, Smoke (183)

Raptors: 5 raptors, 3 Melta, Infiltrate (190)

Solid firebase from havocs and 2 las/plas squads. Lord hopefully causes early disruption to enemy guneline and infiltrating marines follow in behind with rhino squad in hot pursuit. Raptors hunt down hidden enemy armour and the pred assists HB bolter squad with crowd control.

Of course this might not be legal depending on when the new codex comes out, but assuming it still is, how do you think it would do and how can it be improved.
I switched to this because during playtesting a Smurf list I was thinking of taking this lot went through the loyalists every time.

Thanks for any comments

Kenny
 

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The Traveler
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Well, I can see that you've thought this through...good work. I'm seeing some faults here though.

SM- The Drop Pod rules would probably render a solid firebase into molten slag in half a turn, especially cause' there's only six.

Tau- Possible outcome of you getting shot apart before you reach Tau lines, the Railgun would shoot the ride out from under your Rhino squad.

Tyranids- SM and CSM always are kind of bad fighting Nids', because Nids' can drop almost 300 models on the table playing a 2500 poitn game. Overwhelming numbers.

Good list.

-Dirge
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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Like Dirge said good work, hes basically said most of what I was going to say in the way of faults.

Very fluffy though.

Ave Dominus Nox!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the reply's guys.

Would it be worth dropping the HB squad and using the points to up the numbers in the other squads? Put the Havocs to 8 and maybe the infiltrating squad to 10 to extend their survivability. Another alternative would be a single Obliterator to deep-strike in.

The plan for the rhino is 12" on first turn, pop smoke, get the cargo out and pray. After this it's just a rolling wall for as long as it lasts. Tau railguns are the bane of my life sometimes.

Points level is 1500, and even at that I've been overrun by bugs too easily in the past

Cheers

Kenny
 

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Is this your first GT?

The new chaos codex won't be legal at heat 1, so your good to plan.
My suggestions to think about, bearing in i took chaos to the finals last year.

Drop the pred and rhino, with only 2 armoured targets they won't last very long. The points would be better spent on more CSM's.

As it will be the last heat that it will be legal for i would imagine heat 1 to be the heat of the IW. Take plenty of high AP to deal with that.

unless they are INF, i would drop plasma on min sized squads. I ran plasma in each of my 3 supporting infantry units at the finals, and very rarely got to use them. If your INF then its probably still worth it though.
 

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Good potential but i would recommend a fair amount of changes.

Chaos Lord: Twin Lightning Claws, Frags, Spiky Bits, Furious Charge, Infiltrate, Flight, Aura, Armour (186)
Ok i think this guy is a bit expensive for what he is. Personally i would take out furious charge and the lightning claws and take a dark blade. If you have a lightning claw model then obviously its silly to buy a new one so i would say take out furious charge and take strength instead. Its cheaper and means that you always get your strength bonus. I5 would suffice imo.

Also i would take out daemon armour and take resiliance. Again just to make the guy cheaper but still hard.



Chaos Marines: 5 marines, Heavy Bolter, Infiltrate (90)
This unit seems a bit too stand alone imo. I also have never really liked the idea of taking heavy bolters in troop squads its more cost effective to have a lascannon in there. heavy bolters are cheap everywhere lascannons however get really expensive.



Chaos Marines: 7 marines, 6 BP/CCW, 1 Melta. 1 Asp Champion PW/BP, Strength, All with Frags and Furious Charge: Rhino, Smoke, Extra Armour (240)

Chaos Marines: 7 marines, 5 BP/CCW, 1 Flamer, 1 Plasma Pistol. 1 Asp Champion PF/BP, Spiky Bits, All with Frags and Furious Charge and Infiltrate (222)
I think as these are your combat units they should both be doing the same thing. Either have them both in rhinos or both infiltrating. Personally because of excalation and my hatred of rhinos i would suggest infiltrate. Then you have a bigger number of power armour running at the enemy and are less likely to get shot up.



Predator: AutoCannon, HB sponsons, Mutated Hull, Deamonic, Parasitic, Smoke (183)
Far too many upgrades. First of all take out at least one from your choice of mutated hull, daemonic and parasitic possession upgrades I personally would take out 2 of them. Your tank is far too expensive for the job you have assigned it too. I would also have a lascannon on the hull simply because heat 1 will have iron warriors and that means you need to be able to be confident at taking down tanks and obliterators.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the reply's guys, I'm just back from holiday hence my silence.

Jigplums, this will be my 2nd GT, I came 138th in heat 1 last year with my Dark Eldar. I like to think it was 1st GT nerves but I doubt it.

I've been thinking a bit about the list and have changed a couple of things.
The HB squad is gone and so is the rhino., and I have this in mind:

Chaos Lord: Twin Lightning Claws, Frags, Spiky Bits, Furious Charge, Infiltrate, Flight, Aura, Strength and Rune (211)

Chaos Marines: 6 marines, Las/Plas, Stealth Adept (115)

Chaos Marines: 6 marines, Las/Plas, Stealth Adept (115)

Chaos Marines: 7 marines, 6 BP/CCW, 1 Melta. 1 Asp Champion PW/BP, Strength, All with Frags and Furious Charge and Infiltrate (206)

Chaos Marines: 7 marines, 5 BP/CCW, 1 Flamer, 1 Plasma Pistol. 1 Asp Champion PF/BP, Spiky Bits, All with Frags and Furious Charge and Infiltrate (222)

Havocs: 8 marines, 2 AutoCannons, 2 Missile Launchers, Stealth Adept, Tank hunters (224)

Predator: AutoCannon, HB sponsons, Mutated Hull, Deamonic, Parasitic, Smoke (183)

Raptors: 6 raptors, 3 Melta, Infiltrate (222)

Obvious problems with this are the cost of the Lord, the cost of the Pred and lack of infiltrate on the 2 las/plas squads. However I think it gives me better sized units, avoids escalation issues for my CC squads.
The obvious, to me anyway, solution is to trim my Lord to a decent size and give the las/plas squads infiltrate. He needs to have flight and LC's as the model is already built and painted, so can anybody help out with the optimum troop killing Lord with those restrictions. The Pred I like as it gives me a pretty tough, mobile scoring unit in addition to it's killing potential, but I could trim it also to free up points for better options.

Thanks for your comments so far and keep them coming please,

Kenny
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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The site has been down for a week so nobodies been around lol, it may take a while for people to come trickling back in as well.

Just a quick question is it cheaper to put a Plasma Pistol on a AC rather than a normal CSM?, a mate has my Codex and I can't check. That may be a way to cut costs. Could probably trim off some of the gifts from the Lord as well, like Aura for example.

You could also get ride of Infiltrate of him and the Raptors, replace the meltas with flamers, pair them together and bang no troops will be able to stand up to it. They probably don't need Infiltrate as they can move fast enough as it is.

The Pred probably won't last long as its the only armour in the list and will be the sole target of your enemies anti-tank.
 

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I would Definately Drop the Predator. It really wont last long as the only armour even with the extra upgrades. If your lord has daemonic rune i think it'd be rude not to give him daemonic essense as well. If you give him daemonic speed instead of flight, you still get to deploy in escaltion, save points, on average move further, and get to be known as a cheesey git :)
The raptors look like alot of points on paper, you could swap them for 2 las/plas squads and double your numbers or add in more havocs or cc marines.

The cc marine squads i would give 2 melta's to both, they will be closing with the enemy and something to melt armour to slag and that can be fired the turn you assault has to be the best bet imo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
OK, the concensus seems to be that the Pred should go and that my Lord should have speed instead of flight, so what about the following:


Chaos Lord: Twin Lightning Claws, Frags, Spiky Bits, Infiltrate, Speed, Aura, Strength and Rune (191)

Chaos Marines: 6 marines, Las/Plas, Stealth Adept, Infiltrate (133)

Chaos Marines: 6 marines, Las/Plas, Stealth Adept, Infiltrate (133)

Chaos Marines: 7 marines, 6 BP/CCW, 1 Melta. 1 Asp Champion PW/BP, Strength, All with Frags and Furious Charge and Infiltrate (206)

Chaos Marines: 7 marines, 5 BP/CCW, 1 Flamer, 1 Plasma Pistol. 1 Asp Champion PF/BP, Spiky Bits, All with Frags and Furious Charge and Infiltrate (222)

Havocs: 8 marines, 2 AutoCannons, 2 Missile Launchers, Stealth Adept, Tank hunters (224)

Havocs: 6 Marines 4 HB's Stealth Adept, Tank Hunters (168)

Raptors: 6 raptors, 3 Melta, Infiltrate (222)

I've upped the model count to 49, everything but the 2 havoc squads can infiltrate, my Lord now has speed, I've still got anti tank and with the Tank Hunting HB havocs have crowd control that can also glance eldar skimmers (on a 6).
I really like the claws on the Lord, I find he pummels units on his own with these, likely to get 3 or 4 kills a turn on the charge against normal marines, he can tie up Dev squads really quickly.

How does it look now, I need to check my models and get some purchases made if this is the list that I will go with.

Thanks for the help so far.
 

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Looking better already. Not 100% on the Havoc Compositions but they should work as they are. I wonder if you would be better with something like

6 havocs, 3x Autocannon, stealth adept, tank hunters
6 havocs, 3x Autocannon, stealth adept, tank hunters

obvious 8 man squads would be even better
 

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Yeah agreed, wouldn't bother at all with Tank hunter on the Hvy bolters. Would make the anti tank havoc's all autocannon (2 S8 shots is better than 1 S9). Also i wouldn't bother with Infil for the raptors as you are looking at a clossal ammount of points there for very little.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I could just replace the 4 HB's with 3 autocannons as a straight swap points wise to give me 6 Str 8 shots from that squad along with 4 Str 8 and 2 Str 9 from the other havoc squad. That sounds like a lot of anti tank when combined with the 2 lascannons in the tac squads. Also spreads the anti tank around quite a bit. The autocannons could also be used for crowd control if need be.

Time to break open the piggy bank and make a few purchases I think. Thanks for the help guys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the advice guys. The list is now as follows and I've got to say I'm pretty happy with it.

Chaos Lord: Dark Blade/BP, Frags, Spiky Bits, Infiltrate, Furious Charge, Speed, Aura, Deamon Armour (177)

Chaos Marines: 6 marines, Las/Plas, Stealth Adept, Infiltrate (133)

Chaos Marines: 6 marines, Las/Plas, Stealth Adept, Infiltrate (133)

Chaos Marines: 9 marines, 7 BP/CCW, 1 Melta, 1 Flamer. 1 Asp Champion PW/BP, Strength, All with Frags and Furious Charge and Infiltrate (252)

Chaos Marines: 7 marines, 5 BP/CCW, 1 Flamer, 1 Plasma Pistol. 1 Asp Champion PF/BP, Spiky Bits, All with Frags and Furious Charge and Infiltrate (222)

Havocs: 8 marines, 2 AutoCannons, 2 Missile Launchers, Stealth Adept, Tank hunters (224)

Havocs: 6 Marines, 3 ACs Stealth Adept, Tank Hunters (168)

Raptors: 5 raptors, 3 Melta, Infiltrate (190)

Everything but my Havocs can infiltrate, I have got my 1st turn charging Lord, with 5 Str 7, I 5 attacks, plenty of fire support and 2 close combat squads.
I'm a little concerned about mobility but I think infiltartion should overcome most of the problems in reaching objectives, I just might be out manouvered a bit.
The Raptors are expensive but the 3 melta guns almost guarentee the destruction of any tank they draw a bead on.

Anything else I should be considering or am I good to go :)

Cheers

Kenny

(Edited to show changes after a bit of testing)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I've been working a bit more on this list and this is where it's at now. I changed 1 las/plas squad to 2 plasma guns for a rapid firing elite killer squad, as I reckon I could do without the lascannon.
The Autocannon havocs are now infiltrating to try and get early LOS to pesky skimmers.
Also sorted the special weapons in the 2 CC squads so that 1 has 2 Flamers in it and the other has 2 meltas in it, just to make them a bit more specific in their roles.

Thanks for your help getting it to here and any more input is appreciated.

kenny

Chaos Lord: Dark Blade/BP, Frags, Spiky Bits, Infiltrate, Furious Charge, Speed, Aura, Strength, Deamon Armour (187)

Chaos Marines: 6 marines, 2 Plasma Guns, Stealth Adept, Infiltrate (128)

Chaos Marines: 6 marines, Las/Plas, Stealth Adept(115)

Chaos Marines: 9 marines, 7 BP/CCW, 2 Flamers. 1 Asp Champion PW/BP, Strength, All with Frags and Furious Charge and Infiltrate (250)

Chaos Marines: 7 marines, 5 BP/CCW, 2 Meltaguns. 1 Asp Champion PF/BP, Spiky Bits, All with Frags and Furious Charge and Infiltrate (226)

Havocs: 8 marines, 2 AutoCannons, 2 Missile Launchers, Stealth Adept, Tank hunters (224)

Havocs: 6 Marines, 3 ACs Stealth Adept, Tank Hunters, Infiltrate (186)

Raptors: 5 raptors, 2 Meltaguns, Infiltrate (180)
 

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can you find any points for daemonic strength on the lord - s8 on the charge at i6 is a character killer and has a chance against vehicles. I took my alpha legion lord with the same setup you have but with strength and even managed to chew trhough a defiler before he got hit in the face with a vindicator's shell..... :(

I personally kept every one of my units 6 strong, but thats just a personal opinion, I always feel that they should all have the same number of men.

Regarding raptors, I took them and they were my worst unit, even when they assaulted they didnt seem to do enough, I found that a cc orientated flamer squad like you have but with a powerfist did the job much better.

Also if you have any points spare I would definately look in to getting daemonic visage as its quite cheap but can be well worth it.

Thats my thoughts anywho
 

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i would suggest sticking the lord with the raptors and taking off daem armor and giving him flight instead of speed, or dropping one of your CC squads and giving the lord a squad of CC chosen marines, just from what ive found, things like that big lord are big targets, and ppl generally tend to aim their high AP stuff at him rendering the daem armor kinda useless, so if hes not alone, you've A) better protection as he cannot then be picked out by firearms if accompanied by chosen and you can shave off alot of the points you use to make the lord expensive with the defensive items to keep him alive, then if you want you can increase the chosen squad maybe give the squad little more offensive capabilities, and for havocs the mass amounts of autocannon shots is really really effective against eldar and nids, problem it can be hit or miss with IW oblits, forcing them to make saves is good and autocannons do that well but anyway you look at it they're hard to take down, this list can work but alot of it comes down to how you play it, one thing i highly suggest is giving the lord some buddies, dont have him speeded running about on his own, ive lost many lords that way :cry:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Cheers guys,

my lord has strength on him for the very reason you suggest matty570, character killing. The raptors are possibly the weakest unit there but they also give me a bit more mobility and if the get near a tank it will generally be gone. Still not 100% sure about them though.
The lord has speed instead of flight for a couple of reasons, more distance and avoids esclation issues. He can easily gat a first turn charge if the target warrents it, but I've also found him great for securing areas of the table as not much wants to get within his charge range, doesn't count as scoring obviously, but still makes people think about putting anything near him. He's also a great counter attack unit for protecting havocs.
I also find it easier to protect a solo lord than one with a retinue as with careful movement he just never becomes a target.

kenny
 
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