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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay something has been eating at my mind ever since I listened to Dark King/ Lightning Tower. Let me bullet the pertinent information:
- Konrad rebuked by Rogal Dorn for Brutality on Cherult(sp?) (Dark King)
- Konrad confides in Fulgrim regarding his dark visions. (Dark King)
- Fulgrim tells Rogal, Rogal confronts Curze and is assaulted to near death. (Dark King)
- Night Lords Recalled to Terra (Dark King)
- Curze kills some Phoenix Guard and Dorn's Templar (Dark King)
- Curze and Night Lords escape Cherult system and destroy Nostromo while being pursued by other legions (Dark King)
- Curze takes personal responsibility (Dark King)
- Curze takes his Night Lords and flees to the darkest parts of the universe (Lightning Tower)
- Rogal Dorn recalled to Terra (Flight of the Eisenstein)
- Dorn informed of the heresy (Flight of the Eisenstein)
- Night Lords show up in support of the Iron Hands at the Istvaan dropsite massacre and are initially regarded as being loyal. (Fulgrim)
- Night Lords head to Tsagualsa to wage a war of terror on the Imperium (Fulgrim)

So, the question is,
1) didn't Konrad commit sedition when he defied the order to return to Terra and destroyed Nostromo?
2) Since he betrayed an order of the emperor why wasn't he attacked by other legions like Horus was?
3) Why then would they be called upon to fight against the traitors at Istvaan?
4) Was Curze forgiven by the Emperor for his attack on Dorn at some point? 5) In the Lightning Tower, Dorn says Cherult happened "a long time ago". How long are we talking?
It seems like we're missing some info...
 

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1) didn't Konrad commit sedition when he defied the order to return to Terra and destroyed Nostromo?
Yes he did. Curze and the Night Lords were recalled to Terra after the Legion faced mounting criticism about their methods of warfare and conduct. Curze escaped and fled to Nostramo where he enacted justice on the vile population of his birth-world.

2) Since he betrayed an order of the emperor why wasn't he attacked by other legions like Horus was?
Hunting down an Astartes Legion? Would have never been instigated by the Imperium unless in the direst circumstances. It was always drilled into the Astartes and Primarchs that Astartes fighting Astartes was an impossibility, and would never happen, oaths of brotherhood and all that.

However both Curze and his Legion maintain that the Emperor sent assassins to kill Curze long before the Heresy began, this presumably happened after the events of Dark King. So the Imperium/Emperor obviously wasn't happy about having a renegade Legion moping about, but rather than confront a full Legion Astartes (which is a devastating fighting force in itself) they used a more subtle method of attempting to kill Night Haunter, which was probably the more logical solution given the situation.

3) Why then would they be called upon to fight against the traitors at Istvaan?
This is a question that has come up several times, and essentially we don't know. Although I've spoke to Graham Mcneill about this and what he said was:

Graham Mcneill said:
My take is that the Warp is a fickle place, with astropathic messages a less than precise method of communication. Taskforces were likely assembled at short notice, with whatever forces were available brought to bear. And as to what Fulgrim told Ferrus, the Primarch of the Iron Hands simply didn’t believe him, thinking it was a scheme to split the loyalists and sow dissent... (and the Night Lords aren’t mentioned at this point, only Angron, Mortarion and Lorgar).

The trouble is that everyone assumes that communication is as ‘easy’ in across vast galactic gulfs of space as it is to just pick up the phone. That’s not the case at all, in fact it’s the opposite. You have to factor in the emotional responses too, rather than just take things as Fact A and Fact B which can be believed. This is a time of mistrust and misinformation, so it’s easy to see how some things get overlooked. Just look at our own history of war to see how that can happen.
That is certainly a factor that needs to be taken into account. But also the Night Lords could have been viewed as the lesser of two evils compared to Horus, who had instigated outright rebellion against the Emperor, not just disobeyed a recall order and ran away.

4) Was Curze forgiven by the Emperor for his attack on Dorn at some point?
Not that we know of.

5) In the Lightning Tower, Dorn says Cherult happened "a long time ago". How long are we talking?
A fair few years before the Heresy erupted I would say, perhaps even as long as a decade. Logically I would place events concerning the Night Lords in the following order:


  • - Konrad Curze is discovered on Nostramo and joins the Great Crusade in command of the VIII Legion.

  • - Konrad Curze and the Night Lords fight in the Great Crusade for an undisclosed number of years.

  • - The events of Dark King. Konrad flees Dorn's custody, destroys his home-world Nostramo, and takes himself and his Legion into exile in the darkest corners of the Galaxy. During this time several assassination attempts are made on Curze, who avoids them all.

  • - Either by mistake, some form of misinformation, or perhaps on purpose, the Night Lords are called upon by Rogal Dorn to challenge the Warmaster Horus on Isstvan V. Curze and his Legion subsequently join Horus' Rebellion, and are sent into the Galactic East to initiate a genocidal campaign from Tsagualsa on the Imperial Strongholds of Heroldar and Thramas.

  • - Following the death of Horus during the Siege of Terra, Curze finally allows the constant stream of assassins to take his life. He believes that his own death would vindicate his life and prove everything he did and said was right, and the Imperium and Emperor were the hypocrites and tyrants, not he.

I think that covers pretty much everything. :)
 

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1) Sedition was putting it mildly, you could conceivably say that this was outright betrayal when the Night Lords destroyed their home planet.

2) I imagine Curze would have been returned to Terra by force if the Heresy hadn't broken out. If he'd resisted, the Emperor may have issued a death warrant, but he was quite soft when it came to the misbehavings of his 'sons'. There's also a big difference between ignoring orders and outright treachery.

3) The Night Lords had gone A.W.O.L. but were not declared traitors at this point. They were issued orders to go to Istvaan and obeyed them. The Emperor may had been a little desperate and needed as many able bodied astartes as possible, even the unruly Night Lords.

4) He may have been if time had allowed it. The Emperor was a big softie, but Curze didn't allow or want forgiveness. He went off and did what he did, father be damned, proving the Imperium's hipocrasy.

5) I'm not sure an accurate timeline for heresy events exists. You could put events in order, but not exact times. I wouldn't even like to guess how much time took place between Dorn getting his ass handed to him, and the nearing assault on the Imperial palace.
 

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i just listened to the Dark King/Lightning Tower and all through the Lightning tower there was the inner voice of Dorn i think asking him who he feared or what he feared and its my guess that although he feared that Horus may be right i think imho that he also feared Curze seeing as in his rage Curze came close to killing him if not seriously wounding him so in that regard if it came to his brothers that he may have feared i think it was Curze and not just that Horus may have been right.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i just listened to the Dark King/Lightning Tower and all through the Lightning tower there was the inner voice of Dorn i think asking him who he feared or what he feared and its my guess that although he feared that Horus may be right i think imho that he also feared Curze seeing as in his rage Curze came close to killing him if not seriously wounding him so in that regard if it came to his brothers that he may have feared i think it was Curze and not just that Horus may have been right.
Right on. Although, at the very end I think what he is afraid of is the portent of the Lightning Tower that Malcador explains will bring a great sacrifice. It's as if the cards foretold the fall of the Emperor and Dorn knows the Shmuffin is going hit the fan and Horus won't be repulsed without a price.
 

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1) yes, but an educated guess is that he already knew what was to happen from one of his dark visions.

2) if he almost killed a primarch and 2 honour guards plus an assassin would you really persue them? Even the Emperor fears Night Haunter. besides, the forces were needed elsewhere. Emperor`s got some foresight afterall.
and my guess is that it wasn`t the Emperor who sent the assassin. it was that bastard Malcador!

3) the warp

4) no

5) no clue
 

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That was an awful lot of information to have in an audio drama...should have been a full book! maybe then all these questions would have been asnwered...
 
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