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Night Haunter is alive

24443 Views 258 Replies 34 Participants Last post by  Commissar Ploss
After reviewing prior accumulated data upon the primarch konrad kurze, as well as soul hunter....I have concluded the night haunter is alive.

My idea is simple, the assassination and killing of konrad was staged. M'Shen was killed some time before reaching konrad, Shaal by instruction of kurze was instructed to act as the assassin. Thus why shaal saw everything first hand as he was there, however shaal did not kill kurze, konrad simply gave to shaal the corona nox as proof to spread his death. Shaal then ran off with it while disguised as the assassin M'Shen, is then ambushed by eldar, and subsequently is trapped in a warp storm and sleeps for a century or two.

Why did konrad do this? For in essence konrad truly did die, he allowed the night haunter persona to consume him. Thus all his duties to the emperor and his imperium he severed, from the great crusade, to leading his legion, he abandoned it all not caring what was to become of it.

Konrad did die that night, metaphorically with the giving away of his corona nox, night haunter is the one who left that room that night.
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I will address each point.

1. How did night haunter fake his death? As I explained in the op MShen was killed ever before reaching Kurze in person. The assassin that confronted kurze was Sahaal, and the assassin ship sahaal boarded was all a set up, he was both the assassin and the soul hunter.

Night haunter and konrad are on person yes, I never disputed this, however they are entirely two seperate personalities. The night of the staged assassination konrad allowed the night haunter persona to consume him thus konrad did die and signified it by handing over his corona nox to spread his death. Night haunter now the dominant personality abandoned his legion, and let the rumor of his death spread so he could truly be free of his father the emperor.
It was a mistake in my typing, I meant to say sahaal was the assassinkonrad staged to fake his assassination and soul hunter chased after it.

As to they fight for who is to lead? Because konrad never left a clear indicator of who is to lead simply because he did not care.
Firstly konrad did want to die, and he did as his personality ceased to be, night haunter consumed konrad.

Secondly, the question of how sahaal became the assasin? With the use of a poly potion as well as holograms.

The eldar were a non planned factor, they happened as they did and their interference had no effect on haunters plan which was to abandon his legion and gain freedom.

Both sahaal and soul hunter were working for night haunter, however neither knew the other was working for haunter as well. Haunter instructed sahaal to fake the assassination and take the corona with promise of the legion going to him. Soul hunter was purposefully positioned to chase after the "assassin" which haunter planned on, so that the reign of the legion would be uncertain. The assassin that soul hunter caught and executed was an individual that sahaal recruited for the sole purpose of dying so sahaal's role as the assassin wouldn't be found out.

Thus haunter went free, sahaal gained control of the legion, and was a win for all in the eyes of haunter.
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Night haunter wasn't ashamed of his legion...night haunter despised the emperor. Konrad was ashamed of his legion, for in time he saw that the initial approval and sanctioning of his methods that the emperor had given him...were taken away in trade for appeasing the public opinion at large.

To konrad the legion symbolized and represented all that he sacrificed and became in order to fulfill what his father needed from a son whom he loved with no bounds....to be the darknes and hate of the empire to act as a focal point to bring focus and discipline to a realm of chaos which without brutality and cruelty would be unable to do so.

As konrads faith, and love in the emperor which is what sustained him through his sacrifice of his humanity for his father, faded so to do konrad as a persona and night haunter which started as a fragment of personality initially used as a defense mechanism while he commited acts of cruelty and inhuman hatred. The fragment known as night haunter grew, it protected konrad and became his only friend, and as konrad lost the will to live it stepped in to preserve konrad's life, even if it meant consuming him.

Haunter was the representation and epitome of konrad's survival instinct, Haunter knew that to keep konrad alive it had to seperate him from that which was most threatening to him, the primary source of stress, the legion and his father.

Thus haunter formulated a intricate plan and put it into motion, to fake his death, and take over as the primary persona. Sahaal and soul hunter were but tools in his plan, ones which carried out their roles flawlessly.

Haunter cared about konrad, as his survival was indrectly tied to hisown, haunter could care less for the legion.
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All of the novels involving konrad I have dabbled in, however my interpretation of them is different from your own.

Where as you see sahaal witnessing the event of konrad being beheaded, I interpreted as a purposeful lie spread by sahaal, that sahaal saw what konrad wanted him to see.

Nothing I have said in any way contradicts the material, and depending on how long you have followed warhammer 40k, and I do not convey the notion of simply downloading the dex's, then you would know that in warhammer absolutely nothing is ever truly confirmed or denied. And often statements made by characters, or the narrarator GW/BL often retcons them by saying the character which said them was lying, or purposefully spreading misinformation.

I have explained quite clearly how konrad faked his death, if you disagree that is your opinion.

Which is why I question how long you have followed warhammer 40k from when it first debuted. Because your opinions reflect those of an individual who has not been around long enough to see and know that "outlandish" theories like these often turn out to be true in one way or another. GW/BL never set anything in stone, it is their golden rule to marketing.
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As to my perception I have not changed my core structure to my presentation at all.

The only change I made was when I mistakingly referred to sahaa and soul hunter as the same individual in one of my post.
Alright...some seem to take this in jest..

First I do believe dorn is still alive, his body was never found only his hands and weapons.

Secondly, I also ferrus is still alive, during his battle with fulgrim I believe fulgrim with the last of his humanity spared ferrus, where he then went into hiding on mars.

Yes sahaal purposefully lied to the readers, all books as stated by gw and bl are to be from the perspective of imperial documentation. Thus haunter knowing the imperium would be seeking confirmation of his death had sahaal tactfully lie in the third person to cement it.

Any other questions?

As for horus....there are rumors it is he who is on the golden throne.
The HH books are from imperial viewpoint, we the readers are reading archived knowledge....its stated by gw. Archived and processed by the imperium.

As for dorn...somebooks say his body was found, while others have plainly stated only his hands and weapons were found. Which you choose to believe is your choice...

As for ferrus, some books have hinted subtly that he is actually hiding on mars, waiting for some thing. As for him being decapitated? That is explained by fulgrim sparing him, making a dealwith the demon of the laer blade to fake ferrus's (his best friend) death in trade for possession of his body (fulgrim).

I appologize ultra, what is your question/s?
So whose head does Fulgrim give to Horus?
A fake, created by the daemon of the laer blade, another head transmuted to replicate ferrus's head.
And is the Word Bearer trilogy also from the Imperial viewpoint?
It truly is your choice to decide how you perceive the story, do you follow GW's word to the print, or subjectively interpret it knowing that it is processed by imperial agents for archival? Or perhaps a mix of both?

You the reader are the inquisitor reading these files of historic significance, its your choice to decide what is true, what is not, and to what degree of truth some thing is.
you know angel of blood, I have not violated this forum's TOS but youhave by openly deriding another forum user with insults, more commonly known in this digital context as flaming?

I have not insulted you once, why do you feel the need to fling names of derision at me? And if you feel vehement towards me, why even post in this thread?
Ok, so in Soul Hunter M'shen is said to have ran off with Konrads head. I would like you to explain what this actually was according to your theory?

That was my question.

Even though I would like Curze to be alive, I find your theory a bit too...'optimistic'...maybe, and a bit too crackpot.
M'Shen who was being masqueraded by Sahaal, did indeed run off with a head, but it wasn't konrads head, it was a fake as mshen was killed before ever reaching kurze's citadel. Sahaal at konrads orders masqueraded as mshen using a poly potion, and a fake head set up before hand. The decapitation of kurze was a hologram.
But you cant decapitate a hologram....and even if you could, a fake head as big as a primarchs head? No
It could be a small head, a large head,size did not matter, it was set up before hand.
OK, so...
By use of a poly potion,and hologram technology.
I believe night haunter with his pariah powers, was able to see into the future, a glimpse, and saw what was to come. So he cut his ties via his staged assassination, and left to the halo stars region.

I also believe night haunter has a connection with the outsider, I believe the outsider is the voice which would speak with haunter, you could say night haunter persona is a manifestation of the outsider calling to a host, to come free it from its prison which is where I believe haunter went to.
I'm sorry, prophetic pariah powers!?

Yes, I do believe the emperor genetically engineered one of his sons to have power derived from the pariah gene, and in this case it was Night Haunter. Thus why others felt so uncomfortable around him, why he had an aura of unease and drew such hatred towards him, just as pariahs do.

He also had the ability to draw far deeper upon the power of the pariah gene, the void, then any other could due to this primarch heritage. He was a pariah-hybrid, a pariah derived from the gene splicing of the emperor and his genetic experimentation.

I do believe this is why Konrad was so emotionally conflicted, dead as it were, as well as why he drew such hate from others and caused unease to all those around him.

He also had the ability to channel the void for destructive means, such as when he caused every light fixture of the entire housing complex he was being held in to simultaneously explode. As well as being able to meld with shadows and warp through them to wherever he so wished, when he fought the honor guard of Dorn.

It is my belief that Konrad's "insanity" was influenced by the outsider, just as the Void dragon is able to whisper across reality to those close to it, so too can the outsider from its celestial prison. And Konrad was its target, its chosen, thus why konrad faked his death, to be consumed by the outsider's influence, also known as the Night Haunter.

As the Night haunter, now free from his legion and the emperor, he was able to follow the calling within his corporeal being, the whispers of the outsider and be further drawn to that ever infinite madness. I do believe the outsider plans to use Konrad to release it from its prison, or to use konrad as avatar of its will and essence.
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There is just one real problem I see with this pariah thing; Kurze, like all the primarchs, was a psyker to some degree. You can't be both a psyker and a pariah, pariah's are the anti psyker.

Please, for some (or even all) of these theories and facts of yours can you provide any references for the rest of us to look into so that we can maybe see them for ourselves?
I dont have the page references on me....but pariahs exude an aura which causes those around them to feel unease, the stronger the pariah, the stronger this effect is. Ranging from unease, to causing hatred, madness to those around them, not just psykers, non psykers as well.

It is stated in numerous novels, that Konrad caused the other primarchs around him, to feel uneasy around him, as well as to cause feelings of hate towards him, such as Dorn quickly attacking him when usually dorn is level headed in that context.

It is generally held going according to Magnus statement that the other primarchs were hypocrites because their psyker flame which he saw was just as bright as his. However, it never states he said this about every single primarch, in particular Kurze. It could be that Kurze truly was a Pariah, and it is known that the emperor knew of the pariah gene and likely was unable to genetically cause it to produce when he wanted, ala the sisters of silence.

His sons, the primarchs each represented a piece of himself, as well as a piece of his desire, magnus the psyker gifted, horus the will charismatic ideals of the emperor, and so forth. It is not that far stretched to see that Konrad was a pariah of a level not yet seen of any other, a pariah could truly tap the void to any extent he desired with enough control, or not tap it at all.
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It has never been stated Pariahs can not have visions of the future....psykers channel the warp for their powers....pariahs channel the "void" for theirs.

One looks through the warp for glimpses of the infinite strings of possibility, the other gazes through the veil of reality to pierce the future.
Additionally, it should be noted that if Konrad was and is a pariah, depending upon his level of power, he could very well not only have the ability to channel the void, but also be able to wield the warp to his will. Is he able to willingly produce and channel the warp? No. But a pariah the level of a "black pariah" is able to forcefully will the warp to their every whim when in the presence of it. Such as Konrad would potentially be able to do if he is a pariah, also being a primarch and of the genes of the emperor as well as crossed with the pariah gene would give him access to both.
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