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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After reviewing prior accumulated data upon the primarch konrad kurze, as well as soul hunter....I have concluded the night haunter is alive.

My idea is simple, the assassination and killing of konrad was staged. M'Shen was killed some time before reaching konrad, Shaal by instruction of kurze was instructed to act as the assassin. Thus why shaal saw everything first hand as he was there, however shaal did not kill kurze, konrad simply gave to shaal the corona nox as proof to spread his death. Shaal then ran off with it while disguised as the assassin M'Shen, is then ambushed by eldar, and subsequently is trapped in a warp storm and sleeps for a century or two.

Why did konrad do this? For in essence konrad truly did die, he allowed the night haunter persona to consume him. Thus all his duties to the emperor and his imperium he severed, from the great crusade, to leading his legion, he abandoned it all not caring what was to become of it.

Konrad did die that night, metaphorically with the giving away of his corona nox, night haunter is the one who left that room that night.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Haven't read soul haunter( is that what it is called?) so I don't know, but given Curzes past I wouldn't say this is unreasonable at all.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Having read Soul Hunter i can confirm that Konrad Curze AND Night Haunter(somehow i feel i have to now refer to both of them when convincing people) ARE dead. There was no trickery or staging in his death. Unless you know of a really good trick to being decapitated and managing to carry on. It's not just one Night Lord that witnessed his death, loads of them did, they jeered M'Shen as she fled the palace carrying HIS head. Soul Hunter/Talos brutally murdered M'Shen aswell and i'm fairly certain he would have realised he had killed an astartes and not an assassin.

How in all this theory does Sahaal somehow shrink himself and mould his physcial appearence to that of a: A. a female, B: a Callidus assassin.
 

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This is a common held theory that he's alive, although many simply believe that he's not got the same profile of the other Primarchs, of which have recorded histories - either by death or Daemonhood.

THe ones which aren't confirmed in such a manner are Alpharius (who knows, being the Alpha Legion?), and Kurze, because of the lack of confirmation, many believe he's still alive.

Myself, I like to think he actually died - by his death, he showed the depths that the Imperium had gone to - a sort of Martyr moment.



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Bane of Empires
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My idea is simple, the assassination and killing of konrad was staged. M'Shen was killed some time before reaching konrad, Shaal by instruction of kurze was instructed to act as the assassin.
Did Sahaal also somehow hack into Clade Callidus' Vid-feed network aswell then?

Thus why shaal saw everything first hand as he was there, however shaal did not kill kurze, konrad simply gave to shaal the corona nox as proof to spread his death. Shaal then ran off with it while disguised as the assassin M'Shen, is then ambushed by eldar, and subsequently is trapped in a warp storm and sleeps for a century or two.
Who did the Soul Hunter kill aboard the Assassins ship then?

Your theory has so many holes. Seriously, the evidence to suggest that Curze is actually dead is overwhelming, you can't really deny it.

This is a common held theory that he's alive
If you referring to Curze here then I would say its actually a very rarely held theory that hes still alive, especially since Lord of the Night and Soul Hunter have been published. Or of course you could be referring to Alpharius Omegon (as the poster above you asked) in which case you are right. :)
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Yeah there is no popular theory i know of in which Curze is alive. Even before Soul Hunter most agreed he was dead, but Soul Hunter conclusively settles it.

Alpharius and Omegon on the other hand. Im certain they are both alive. One was apparently killed by Guilliman but the whole battle and events were told by an Inquisitor who is now firmly believed to be in the Order of the Hydra anyway and misleading the Imperials into believing one of them dead. The Ultramarines themselves are highly suspicous of the entire encounter. And even if one of them was killed that day, the other one is still about somewhere
 

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I suppose technically it could be justified. But by the "staged" logic and by questioning the viewpoint or bias of every source we are given you could make anything up. It's a bit like saying the horus heresy never happened and that it was staged to keep the populace in line or something else equally rediculous.
 

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Lord of the Night might also have proven that he died, I mean the novel is all about Sahaal getting an item to solidify his right to lead the Night Lords after Night Haunter's death. Other characters go on to talk about how Sahaal is not supposed to lead, they are; why would any of them be thinking they are going to lead if their primarch is still alive?

Also, Zso Sahaal was trapped in a warp storm/stasis lock for the better part of ten thousand years, not a mere century or two.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I will address each point.

1. How did night haunter fake his death? As I explained in the op MShen was killed ever before reaching Kurze in person. The assassin that confronted kurze was Sahaal, and the assassin ship sahaal boarded was all a set up, he was both the assassin and the soul hunter.

Night haunter and konrad are on person yes, I never disputed this, however they are entirely two seperate personalities. The night of the staged assassination konrad allowed the night haunter persona to consume him thus konrad did die and signified it by handing over his corona nox to spread his death. Night haunter now the dominant personality abandoned his legion, and let the rumor of his death spread so he could truly be free of his father the emperor.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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What? have you read Soul Hunter? because Sould Hunter and Sahaal were not the same person. Sahaal was the captain of the first company and Soul Hunter/Talos was captain of the 10th. And again how do you explain the vid-feed? or how an Astartes, a very large individual managed to scale himself down to the size of a lithe slender and female human
 

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1. How did night haunter fake his death? As I explained in the op MShen was killed ever before reaching Kurze in person. The assassin that confronted kurze was Sahaal, and the assassin ship sahaal boarded was all a set up, he was both the assassin and the soul hunter.
Alright so this right here helps to only blow your whole thing out of the water. Zso Sahaal, first captain and talonmaster of the Night Lords, supposed heir to the leadership of the legion, is not the Soul Hunter. Talos, the apothecary of first claw under tenth company is the Soul Hunter.

Sahaal cannot be the assassin, Talos went after her, and confronted her while Sahaal retrieved the carona nox and fled, only for his ship to be attacked by the Eldar and lost for ten thousand years.


So how can Sahaal have been the assassin? He couldn't have been in two places at once, Talos has no love for Sahaal and less reason to aid in faking something with him. And how do you explain the Eldar? They have even less reason to go along with something petty like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It was a mistake in my typing, I meant to say sahaal was the assassinkonrad staged to fake his assassination and soul hunter chased after it.

As to they fight for who is to lead? Because konrad never left a clear indicator of who is to lead simply because he did not care.
 

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1. How did night haunter fake his death? As I explained in the op MShen was killed ever before reaching Kurze in person. The assassin that confronted kurze was Sahaal, and the assassin ship sahaal boarded was all a set up, he was both the assassin and the soul hunter.
Night Haunter wanted to die- he hated the Nights Lords Legion.
Sahaal watched the assassination along with the majority of the Legion, and really I can only say like everyone else that you've not read Soul Hnter and have no idea who Soul Hunter is otherwise you wouldn't have come out with this crackpot theory
Night haunter and konrad are on person yes, I never disputed this, however they are entirely two seperate personalities. The night of the staged assassination konrad allowed the night haunter persona to consume him thus konrad did die and signified it by handing over his corona nox to spread his death. Night haunter now the dominant personality abandoned his legion, and let the rumor of his death spread so he could truly be free of his father the emperor.
The Corona Nox was stolen along wth all the rest of his wargear signifying him as the leader of the NL by various leaders of the Legion.
What? have you read Soul Hunter? because Sould Hunter and Sahaal were not the same person. Sahaal was the captain of the first company and Soul Hunter/Talos was captain of the 10th. And again how do you explain the vid-feed? or how an Astartes, a very large individual managed to scale himself down to the size of a lithe slender and female human
Soul Hunter/Talos isn't the Captain of the 10th, he was just an Apothecary in the 10th Company and he killed the assassin who was carrying the head of Night Haunter.
 

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Bane of Empires
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1. How did night haunter fake his death? As I explained in the op MShen was killed ever before reaching Kurze in person. The assassin that confronted kurze was Sahaal, and the assassin ship sahaal boarded was all a set up, he was both the assassin and the soul hunter.
Firstly Lord of the Night explains that Sahaal was hidden nearby when Curze was killed so that in itself makes your theory moot. And your now saying that Sahaal is Talos aswell? :wacko:

Night haunter and konrad are on person yes, I never disputed this, however they are entirely two seperate personalities.
That in itself has never been confirmed, only implied.

The night of the staged assassination konrad allowed the night haunter persona to consume him thus konrad did die and signified it by handing over his corona nox to spread his death. Night haunter now the dominant personality abandoned his legion, and let the rumor of his death spread so he could truly be free of his father the emperor.
Why would he abandon his Legion? Why not just completely give into this other persona and take his Legion with him? After all having a Legion at his command he could spread much more fear and consume much more terror.

Also there is the whole point that Night Haunter actually wanted to die, to vindicate his life and methods.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Yeah error on my part about Talos being a captain, even so point still stands.

And ok you seem to be pretty insistent on Sahaal somehow tricking evryone into him being the assassin. Absurd as this is i again ask you how he manged to turn himself into a Callidus assassin
 

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He was Callidus all along! Since forever! And still is! And the legion is being run by a loyalist even now!
...sorry, couldn't resist.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Firstly konrad did want to die, and he did as his personality ceased to be, night haunter consumed konrad.

Secondly, the question of how sahaal became the assasin? With the use of a poly potion as well as holograms.

The eldar were a non planned factor, they happened as they did and their interference had no effect on haunters plan which was to abandon his legion and gain freedom.

Both sahaal and soul hunter were working for night haunter, however neither knew the other was working for haunter as well. Haunter instructed sahaal to fake the assassination and take the corona with promise of the legion going to him. Soul hunter was purposefully positioned to chase after the "assassin" which haunter planned on, so that the reign of the legion would be uncertain. The assassin that soul hunter caught and executed was an individual that sahaal recruited for the sole purpose of dying so sahaal's role as the assassin wouldn't be found out.

Thus haunter went free, sahaal gained control of the legion, and was a win for all in the eyes of haunter.
 

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Wow, that sounds so out there and far fetched that I kinda-sorta want to see if you can find anything decent to back it up.
 

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...so the guy in charge hired himself to assassinate the guy in charge so he could take charge himself? And then he went and killed the assassin so noone would know?
 
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