[Bloodcuddler of Khorne]

My friends and I play team games all the time, and it usually ends up being "good guys" (read--less evil looking stereotypically) vs "bad guys" (read--obvious villain types.) Moral debates about the various factions aside, seeing as I have two Chaos armies I'm generally on the same side of this no matter what I'm playing, while all my other friends with two armies have one "good" and one "evil," and I'm starting to see why.

After much consideration, I've narrowed my next army down to either Eldar or Tau. Nobody in my group of friends has Tau, but from what I've read and what people have told me it sounds like there might be a very good reason for that...

I posted a 2500 pt list in the Tau forum for what I'd want to use, just to make sure I had some sort of idea of how I would do that. Doing the same for Eldar took a bit more time, and even then I probably botched it horribly. Basically I've decided to just make it whichever army I'm more satisfied with when you lovely Heretics are done picking my lists apart and making them not suck so much.

Here's the full list of what my friends play, in order of how often I play with them from most to least, in case that matters for what I should use:

1. Eldar, Tyranids
2. Space Wolves, Tyranids
3. Orks
4. Necrons
5. Space Marines, Orks
6. Imperial Guard
7. Orks

So, now that I've thoroughly wasted your time, here's the list I was looking at.

HQ:
-Avatar

Elites:
-Fire Dragons x6 (Exarch, Tank Hunters)
*in Falcon
-Fire Dragons x6 (Exarch, Tank Hunters)
*in Falcon
-Howling Banshees x10 (Exarch, Executioner, War Shout, Acrobatic)
*Wave Serpent (TL Shuriken Cannons, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones)

Troops:
-Wraithguard x10
*Warlock(Spiritseer, Enhance)
-Rangers x10 (Pathfinders)
-Dire Avengers x10 (Exarch w/ two shuriken catapults, Bladestorm)
*Wave Serpent (TL Shuriken Cannons, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones)
-Dire Avengers x10 (Exarch w/ two shuriken catapults, Bladestorm)
*Wave Serpent (TL Shuriken Cannons, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones)

Heavy Support
-Dark Reapers x5 (Exarch, Eldar Missile Launcher, Fast Shot, Crack Shot)
-Falcon (Holo-fields, Eldar Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones)
-Falcon (Holo-fields, Eldar Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones)


So... how bad is it?

 

[Gaunts ghosts]

since you play nids alot replace the dragons with harlequins and wraithguard w/ either jetbikes or more rangers. Make sure the harlequins are used correctly and they can tear up enemies like nids quickly.

 

[Stephen_Newman]

For the reapers get rid of the fast shot skill and replace the missile launcher with a tempest launcher. It has a good AP and rerollable wounds ignoring cover will kill off plenty of marines whilst the blast template nature of the weapon makes it a viable choice against hordes.

Just look at the sig for what this outfit can do.


Tacttics wise with the limited anti land raider power this list has keep the flacons in cover even if you have first turn and then full out turbo boost towards target. They will be well protected with holo-fields and 3+ cover save. Next turn as the fire dragons pop raider/big scary armoured target kill surrounding threats with rest of army.

 

[Styro-J]

I would have to advise not to drop those dragons for Harlies in the case of Nids. Against them Dragons are more than handy at downing Warrior squads and MC's. Tank Hunters is a tad bit overkill against just about any army, that many Melta guns should be just about able to take down any tank.

The list is low on ranged high strength weapons, but between Dragons and Wraithguard Land Raiders will have enough to worry about. Be ready to intercept the contents though, as neither unit wants to be in CC.

The one thing that really bugs me about the list is that the sole HQ is the Avatar. The only times I would consider taking him is A) in a 500 point game or B) with Farseer (Eldrad) support. As is, he is too big and easy to single out. At that point level, there is just too many things that can hurt him easily and from across the board. Other HQ's will likely prove more survivable for you and in the process will likely find ways to be more beneficial to your army as a whole. For example, a Farseer with Doom is a Howling Banshee's best friend.

 

[Bloodcuddler of Khorne]

Thanks guys!

So far I've made the following changes:
Fire Dragons: Removed Tank Hunters. I'm also considering giving the Exarch a Dragon's Breath Flamer to make the unit more versatile against horde armies, since they'll be fighting a lot of Tyranids and Orks. I'm thinking 5 meltas will still be enough to deal with most tanks and MCs, and the flamer will still be nice for taking out Tyranid Warriors. Who knows, I might even roll a 6 against something's back armor?
Dark Reapers: Removed Fast Shot, switched Exarch weapon to Tempest Launcher, as Newman suggested. I originally gave him the missile launcher so they could be useful against tanks or high toughness things, but like Styro said, between the Dragons and the Wraithguard I've probably got that covered.

Styro: As for the Avatar... two reasons I'm tempted to keep him. #1: It's freakin awesome, #2: It's FREAKIN AWESOME, #3: It seemed like a very efficient point value for something to draw the big guns away from the rest of my army, #4: A slight homage to my Eldar friend, since we like to have his Avatar and my Bloodthirster fight one-on-one in Godzilla-esque glory. The Avatar usually wins. Damn his high Initiative....

That said, you make a very good point about the Farseer, and I'm very tempted to try it out. I'm also wondering if replacing the Banshees and the Avatar with a Farseer joined to a unit of Warlocks might be better. Sure they lack power weapons, but I'm wondering if wounding on 2s and the ability to harm tanks, plus the bonuses from the various powers, would make up for that. Of course that's also a lot more points, so I'd probably have to completely rebuild the list from scratch... but is a Farseer + Warlocks unit worth it?


EDIT:

Okay, here's my updated full list, with the extra points spent and whatnot. Shaving off things and making the changes you guys suggested gave me a bunch of points left over, but not enough for another unit of anything, hence some redundant upgrades.

HQ:
-Farseer (Doom, Fortune, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing)
*joined with Howling Banshees

Elites:
-Fire Dragons x6 (Exarch, Dragon's Breath Flamer, Crack Shot)
*in Falcon
-Fire Dragons x6 (Exarch, Dragon's Breath Flamer, Crack Shot)
*in Falcon
-Howling Banshees x10 (Exarch, Executioner, War Shout, Acrobatic)
*Wave Serpent (TL Shuriken Cannons, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones)

Troops:
-Wraithguard x10
*Warlock(Spiritseer, Enhance)
-Rangers x10 (Pathfinders)
-Dire Avengers x10 (Exarch w/ two shuriken catapults, Bladestorm, Defend)
*Wave Serpent (TL Shuriken Cannons, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones)
-Dire Avengers x10 (Exarch w/ two shuriken catapults, Bladestorm, Defend)
*Wave Serpent (TL Shuriken Cannons, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones)

Heavy Support
-Dark Reapers x5 (Exarch, Tempest Launcher, Crack Shot)
-Falcon (Holo-fields, Eldar Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones)
-Falcon (Holo-fields, Eldar Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones)


If I do give the dragon exarch the Flamer, I'm wondering if taking Defend off the Dire Avengers and giving them Tank Hunters back would make the Flamer better able to harm the back armor of a tank. Having both Defend and Bladestorm seems slightly redundant on the Dire Avengers, but I didn't have anything more useful to do with those points that I could see.

Also, the big reason I like that decked out setup for the Farseer is because that makes him the exact same point cost as the Avatar, so I could just switch the HQs out depending on my mood.

 

[Stephen_Newman]

No,no,no never give a dragons breath flamer to a fire dragon exarch. I am a firm believer in only giving upgrades to a squad that makes them better at what they do. Therefore only give upgrades to fire dragon exarchs that make them better at killing tanks. The dragons, if used correctly, should not be surrounded by hordes as the rest of the army should have cleared resistance unless the dragons are no longer needed in which case they weaken other stuff.

Happy hunting. I never have used an avatar since I would not give it a decent paint job. I normally use a phoenix lord to surprise the numerous psychic hoods that arrived after I used a farseer in one game!

 

[Styro-J]

Oh wait! One more thing, I believe you will find those Wraithguard much more survivable if their Spiritseer has Conceal instead of Enhance. With or without Enhance they do not want to be in CC. Conceal will help keep the scarier guns from simply clearing them off the board.

On the Farseer matter, I find it difficult to justify not taking a Farseer in a game of this size as so many units become much better with just a little psychic support (Avatar included). At 2500 points, the only time I won't include a Farseer is if I am playing an All Reserve type list.
The good news is that most of the things listed in there are fantastic choices for starting an Eldar army.

 

[Xinofos]

That a nice list.

In the game, you might want to split the pathfinders into 2 squads of 5. One big squad off 10 is a target and it makes them better for objetive based game.

The only other thing that could upgrade is on the wave serpent. If you squeze a few points, get TL scatter laser instead of cannons. Dropping the dragon breath flamer is a good start, fyi: crack shot on a weapon that already ignores cover save is redundent.

 

[Styro-J]

fyi: crack shot on a weapon that already ignores cover save is redundent.

Half true, it also just about makes the Heavy Flamer Twin-Linked. The only thing you miss out on is the Armor Pen rerolls.