Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello there. I have never played Wahammer before, though I have played 40K. I know of the forum rules, where you cannot post actual points costs of soldiers and such, but I am interested in starting a Warriors of Chaos army. Could anyone give me a good example list for a 1000 pt WoC army, with wargear (such as should I use shields, great weapons, etc.) Im sorry, but I am quite new. I just bought the codex 1 hour ago. Of course, if WoC is a difficult army to play, that advice would be useful too, lol. I dont want to get into an army that I would be completely out of my ability to play.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
Warriors of Chaos are fairly straightforward to play, you basically walk forwards and kill everything you can see.

A sample list mights be:

Level 2 Sorcerer, Mark of Tzeentch, Blood of Tzeentch
170

18 Chaos Warriors with Command, Mark of Nurgle, Halberds and Shields
366

16 Chaos Warriors with Additional Hand Weapons and Mark of Khorne, Command
316

Chaos War Shrine, Mark of Tzeentch
150

1002pts

Gives you:
- A good caster for the points level who almost never miscasts (you can reroll one of the sixes if you want)
- An excellent road block unit (the Warshrine, toughness 6 and 4+ Armour and 3+ Ward - remember you take armour AND ward saves)
- Two very killy units of Warriors.

Instead of one of the Warrior units you could look into Knights or Marauders instead, but Knights are expensive and marauders are just (in my opinion) worse than warriors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
WoC aren't that hard to play, all you have to know is that you have no shooting whatsoever except for the hellcannon and possible throwing axes or javelins you can give to marauder horsemen. You want to get in the face of the enemy as quick as you can whilst losing the minimum of troops.

WoC excel at two things, close combat and magic. Your magic can keep your troops safe by blasting the most threating units such as war machines or shooty units. Tzeentch probably has the most chance of actually doing damage, while Nurgle is also great cause of the many "no armour saves allowed" spells. Still Tzeentch has the most chance of wounding, small and big things. Use your magic to change menacing units into tiny toddlers from your point of view and to cause panic in your opponents battle line.
When you ever get into close combat you will be laughing more maniacally than any Khorne devotist, WoC can grind almost everything under their heels.

This mainly depends on what kind of unit you throw at which. Know your units and don't be shy to ask the stats and equipment of your opponents units, this matters a great deal cause a WoC unit broken in combat is a dire thing indeed. Know that when going forward you will take casulties from shooting and magic, sometimes a lot, sometimes not much. Don't let this frighten you, you can not bake an omelet without breaking the eggs.
Then a last advice, use your gifts for your characters. It's a kind of extra points on magic items that can never be taken away from you, not even by things that destroy magic items. Make some surprises from it, remember that you have to challenge when able and accept any challenges issued. Make them pay for letting your mighty lord combat a lowly unit champion.

Now, I've never really made a 1000pts list as I mostly play 2000 to 2250 but I'll give it a go. Many people that play with WoC say that marauders is the new way to go with 8th edition. Personally I prefer warriors any day, they are expensive but they can top marauders by just poking you with their pinky. No matter how many examples are shown here, it is your choice which way to go.

Hero
Lvl 2 Sorcerer, mark of Tzeentch, spell familiar, conjoined homunculus. 175
Core
18 Warriors of chaos with command, mark of nurgle, shields and/or halberds 360 (345 if or is chosen,equal in points)
20 Chaos marauders with flails and a musician 104
5 marauder horsemen with flails 75
5 chaos warhounds 30
Special
5 Knights of chaos with musician, mark of Nurgle. 240

Total: 984

Since this list quite differs from the one above I shall explain why I prefer this.
- You have a good caster with 3 spells, since the power pool is now random rolling it doesn't matter if you can re-roll a dice when you get a 7 average power pool. Conjoined can help you to just reach the limit when just not having enough.
- Nurgle warriors as the main force of your army, put them in sight, it doesn't matter. Use your marauders to back them up or let them be the cannon fodder. Your warriors need to reach the line that's the most important.
- Marauder horsemen and warhounds can deal a bit with annoying flyers and skirmirshers, although not greatly armoured they can harrass your oppenent back.
- Lastly, I've chosen the knights cause this is a 1000 pts list, where there is less chance of getting 7 war machines in your face. They can hit hard and quick and don't need a banner, a champion is possible but not necesarry. I wouldn't use these though in bigger battles.
- Then, I've not chosen a warshrine cause in a 1000 points it's just being a point filler. Okay, you get to roll eye of the gods but you don't really need that advantage in small battles, and if your roll 7 or 2 then it just did nothing. Using it as a roadblock is just giving points to your enemy. Although they have a great save and are hard to kill, they have the flaw of breaking in combat. A unit with 2-3 ranks and a banner can equal the amount of wounds you do, and it is then that you will curse for them having a musician. The biggest ld in your army is 8 (only 9 when you have a chaos lord), taking break tests is something you do not want.

I hope this have been helpfull, if not, than please don't curse my bones into paste.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
- You have a good caster with 3 spells, since the power pool is now random rolling it doesn't matter if you can re-roll a dice when you get a 7 average power pool. Conjoined can help you to just reach the limit when just not having enough.
I find that rerolling a 1 or a 6 is more useful than an extra power dice or spell. A level 2 is not going to get more than 2 spells off anyway, and being able to confidently roll 5+ dice to cast means that you get them off more often. I see people using 3-4 dice a lot because they're afraid of the Miscast chance, however if you gain the ability to reroll one of the dice causing your miscast, you can be much more aggressive with the amount of dice you use per spell. Even ignoring that, it's very useful if you roll a "1" on your first spell and fail to cast, more useful in my mind than Conjoined, which can only increase your roll by 3, the Blood can increase it by a potential 5.

- Marauder horsemen and warhounds can deal a bit with annoying flyers and skirmirshers, although not greatly armoured they can harrass your oppenent back.
Actually I'm not sure they can. A stand and shoot reaction (or just one round of shooting) from 10 Crossbowmen will kill 3-4 of either unit, and then kill the survivors in combat. The horsemen have a place in a larger army, but at this level I feel they are wasting points better spent on good core choices. The hounds are terrible at any points level.

- Lastly, I've chosen the knights cause this is a 1000 pts list, where there is less chance of getting 7 war machines in your face. They can hit hard and quick and don't need a banner, a champion is possible but not necesarry. I wouldn't use these though in bigger battles.
Fair enough, they are good. However I would give them the Mark of Khorne instead of Nurgle, and a Standard for the +1 Combat res. They are already solid enough with a 1+ save, anything that ignores that is either a War machine or magic, and neither are affected by the Mark of Nurgle. Being hit on 5s by WS3 infantry is nice, but it won't have an effect on anything that is actually dangerous to you. I'd go for the Extra attack to make sure you kill enough to win every combat you fight.

Using it as a roadblock is just giving points to your enemy. Although they have a great save and are hard to kill, they have the flaw of breaking in combat. A unit with 2-3 ranks and a banner can equal the amount of wounds you do, and it is then that you will curse for them having a musician. The biggest ld in your army is 8 (only 9 when you have a chaos lord), taking break tests is something you do not want.
I think you've misunderstood how I use them. I run my Warriors at big blocks of infantry, not my Shrine. The shrine finds the nearest monster/mounted lord choice/war machine/unit of knights with lances and simply gets in its way. I have had a Dark Elf lord on a Dragon hitting it before, with no effect. 150 points ties up over 400, making it well worth it in my opinion. I've played 9 games since the new edition and my shrine has yet to die. If they don't have anything but big units of infantry, it just tries to get a flank in order to support my warrior blocks. And you can greatly increase the effectiveness of rolling on Eye of the Gods by giving your Character the 5pt Favour of the Gods... it lets you reroll Shrine blessings for the entire unit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
I'm just going to give my reply like this cause me and the quote button aren't that good friends.

On the wizard, I find it more usefull to have 3 spells than just 2. Indeed the re-rolling is quite good, especially when you end up with a power pool of 2 or 3 dice. And yes throwing 5 dice for one simple spell gives your opponent quite the distaste of rolling his dispell dice. I find that by rolling for three spells you already increase the chance to have the spells you want, and when rolling a double you can choose. I admit that blood of Tzeentch is very good in any point battle, but I prefer more spells over 2 guaranteed spells and it's just so that with an average power pool of 7 dice you already have a heavy casting on either spell. I find it quite useless to change a total roll of 16 with 4 dice (3,3,4,4) and wizard lvl to change it into a 18 or 20 except when you really want to get something through. It actually comes down again on what the player in person wants. Blood of Tzeentch works but when getting 8+ power pool it's quite useless. (btw, you can not re-roll it if it is originally a 1, I really thought they would have errata'd that but guess not.) And ofcourse nowadays you throw 2 dice when casting to avoid that total roll of 1 or 2.

On the hounds and horsemen. You do not send them into a shooting unit who can stand and shoot. That would be a huge tactical mishap and frankly quite stupid if you ask me, no offense intended. It's common to go hunt war machines or small units with horsemen and hounds. I even used them as pure bait. Ofcourse that depend then on your opponent. With us they sometimes say a third of the battle is pure psychology between the two players, which is true. I've charged, lured out a pursuit to then charge with warriors which would have been able to get there in the next two turns. Such things won't happen much though but just giving an example. Anyway, you use your hounds and horsemen to clean up small groups, support your main force, keep other fast cav at bay, cause you do not want them behind your own army, or use them as a meatshield. Hounds are 30 points, horsemen 65 without any equipement. They have WS 4 and I 4 (except for the doggies I 3) I've had hounds take down a war machine, if not busy the war machine so it can not shoot. That's 30 points keeping 100+ points busy. When looking into percentages that's doing the same as your warshrine idea. They can even kill fast cav increasing their value.
Or again use them as bait, I'd gladly sacrifice 90 points of hounds if that means the arrows won't land on my warriors for a turn. The thing is, warhounds and horsemen can be greatly used in the psychology game between players, for some reason people fear them. They don't want them into close combat yet so they'll focus on them, but that's a personal oppinion.

On the knights, nurgle or khorne it's both good. Khorne gives you the extra boost in combat, Nurgle can keep you a bit more safe against shooting but with a 1+ safe indeed not needed. This is players choice, but beware of frenzy, yes they made it more playable but it can still make a mess out of everythin, you need to test with knights when there's an enemy within 19". Personally, without a BSB near I wouldn't do it.

On the shrine, I think we quite hit the nerve here. The man asked for a 1000pts list, you gave one, I gave one. We're discussing for these points not a big battle of 2000 or 2250, then that's a whole other story. A lord on a dragon is something you won't see in 1000 points, favour of the gods is not in the list you presented. If you want to discuss the value of units in 2000 or 2250 lists then present such a list and we can give our interpretations and who knows, we might make THE tournament list :p But anyway, to give some interpretations, it is indeed a good blocking unit, but do you really take it with you for that? What when there's no dragon or other monster? What if the war machines are up on the hill behind his army? Then you just wasted 150 points on a blocking unit which can not block anything. You take the shrine for the blessings and to give some support to attacking warriors to just get that edge, and ofcourse favour of the gods with this is a great combination. Lately I'm testing out Trolls, though not advised in a 1000 pts they've done some things in 2000 and 2250, but I'm still trying them out. 3 for 135pts is not such a bad deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
Don't worry, you didn't hit a nerve - you just mentioned that Shrines were bad against big blocks of infantry - which is catagorically not its intended role. I just thought I'd clarify what I use it for. :)

And ideally, you're right, you wouldn't send either of the light units into a stand and shoot, I was just pointing out how utterly fragile they are when only 5 men strong. My main problem with them is that they do not really accomplish the roles you list:

Hunt war machines: 1 round of shooting from a minimum sized missile unit or a single magic missile from a Mage makes them equal to (or worse) than most War machine crew, and therefore have a good chance of losing the combat (if they even make it).

Bait: I'm sorry, anyone who runs after Hounds or Horsemen when facing Warriors of Chaos either has no clue about the army, or is tactically insane. With the new Frenzy restraining test, they really do suck at this.

Clean up small groups: Of what? Small groups are either elite, cavalry or ranged troops. Any of them will decimate a small unit of Hounds.

Support your main force: For the cost of 5 hounds I can get 2 Chaos Warriors. I'd rather have the Warriors, myself.

Keep other fast cav at bay: There's a reason our Fast Cav is so cheap... it's because it's terrible. Hounds are even cheaper, and therefore are even worse. In a 1v1 matchup between Light Cav, ours loses most of the time either due to black powder weapons (Empire), Better statlines (Elves) or better steeds (Lizardmen).

Meatshield: Changes to line-of-sight and cover rules means hounds no longer work very well as a shielding unit, and Maurauder cav is a bit expensive to use in such a manner.

Please remember this is just my opinion, I'm not saying that this is the ultimate objective reality, I'm just arguing my side of the options and justifying my choices. :)

Basically, I think hounds are terrible, end of discussion. Slightly faster basic humans with no save are not good.

Maurauder Horsemen can be very useful, but in units of 10, rather than 5. 5 Horsemen is a minor threat that can be swatted down without thinking. 10 Horsemen is a problem that your opponent needs to seriously consider if he wants to avoid flank/rear chargers and the loss of his War Machines/Archers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
It is true that horsemen and hounds are doomed to die. And I would also like to put more warriors on the table, put it's sometimes annoying you need them to avoid flank or rear charges (although warriors could take it :p By the gods I love them). So far I've put two units of 5 horsemen and one of 5 hounds on the table as a bit of a filler. So far only the hounds did something.

Horsemen are indeed probably best in units of 10, but I hate giving over 100+ points to them and then they barely have any save :(

The thing I like about hounds is WS 4, the thing I hate is M7. I mean look at O&G wolf riders or the VC wolves, M9 and fast cav. I'd trade in WS 4 for that any day. I've been planning to try more and/or bigger units of warhounds. I'll let you know otherwise how it'd went.

On the warmachine thing, because of the new rules only 2 of the models can hit the crew, whilst 2 are mostly effective enough, when fluffing rolls it can be quite a pain, especially against dwarfs, against empire it matters less. Don't forget that when there's only 1 crew man left, you did your job, since then they can only fire once every 2 rounds. Against elves, well they mostly wipe the machine.

But anyway, I think the conclusion is, warriors rock and can kick anyone's behind. So RazielVipus, put them on the table and don't by shy to use them in large quantities. :)

Btw a last advice considering Great Weapons. Don't :nono: use that WS 5 I 5, halberds are much more fun then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
But anyway, I think the conclusion is, warriors rock and can kick anyone's behind. So RazielVipus, put them on the table and don't by shy to use them in large quantities. :)

Btw a last advice considering Great Weapons. Don't :nono: use that WS 5 I 5, halberds are much more fun then.
Quoted for truth. :eek:k:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,122 Posts
Warshrines with MoT are nigh on unkillible, providing a speedbump for to allow your knights/ ogres/ dragon ogres/ horsemen to flank charge, there their as a suppot not to win combat on their own

Knight with the MoT and the Tzeentch banner can be a far better defence than a warhound screen.

Marauder screen could work if you want one as they are so cheap, you could then reform them as you close with the enemy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Ok so here is a stupid question. Which codex do I use? The 7th edition book, or the PDF on Games Workshop's website? XD I meant it when I said I was a total noob, though I think I might do well with WoC. I played pure Grey Knight DH in 40K and kicked butt, even managed to tie a game against Tau where in turn 1 I had lost all 3 landraiders
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
You use the 7th Ed book and make sure that you've read (and printed out) the FAQ/Errata on the website.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
The pdf is an errata, it is a clarification of some rules and some changes so that the rules in the 7th ed book fit for 8th edition. Most changes for WoC is that things that used "guessing range" are changed to "measure range from the model" this is so that it fits the 8th edition rulebook since you no longer guess ranges. So you use the 7th WoC book and apply the changes made in the errata. Read it, know it, print it, shove it under your opponents nose when he's argueing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yeah, playing pure Grey Knights is a challenge, but I started it after reading the Water Warrior thread, and its worked amazingly, since it lets me counter just about any army.

Ok so thanks to this advice, it looks like I need to buy 3 more boxes of Chaos Warriors, some knights, and Ill use my Archaeon model as a Lord of Chaos.
Or go buy a sorceror. So now for my next question. Which mark should I give my warriors? Tzneetch seems highly recommended, but is a 6+ ward save really worth it, over the effects of the other marks?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
The main contenders for Marks are Nurgle and Khorne, with Tzeentch a distant third and Slaanesh barely worth considering.

Nurgle is excellent if you face a lot of missile fire - most archer units will need 6s to hit you for most of the game. Combine it with Shields for a 3+ vs shooting, and you have a unit that will lose very few models to anything that isn't a War Machine. It is also helpful in combat, making WS3 models hit you on 5s, and WS6 (i.e. Dragon) models hit you on 4s rather than 3s.

Khorne is fairly self explanatory. An extra attack for every warrior is extremely good, especially if they have Halberds or Additional Hand Weapons. Now that you can restrain Frenzy, and a BSB lets you reroll the restrain test, Frenzy is very very good.

Tzeentch is, in my mind, great if you want to make an "anvil" unit. Warriors with Hand Weapon and Shield get 3+/6++ vs Shooting and 3+/5++ in combat. This makes them rather difficult to kill. My main issue with this is that it's not really necessary; your Warriors are hard enough to at least break even against almost any other combat unit in the game if you tool them out to deal damage, especially now that the Charge is almost meaningless.

Slaanesh is pretty pointless now. You reroll Panic because you're Chaos, you reroll Fear and Terror from a BSB, and even if you do somehow manage to fail a test, it's nowhere near as catastrophic as it used to be. Best given to Marauder Horsemen, if you can be bothered.

Of course the options change with each unit, but that's a general rundown of how they apply to Warriors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Ok so I think I have my army idea. This is in no way a comprehensive list, and wont even have costs in it, since I only have one box of warriors so far
Tzneetchian Sorceror
Two 20-man or stronger warriors of chaos, with Marks of Nurgle
5-man knights of chaos unit with marks of khorne
Then some marauders. Ill probably get Beastmen for my marauders, since I like the old school Warriors of Chaos
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,190 Posts
Seems fine for a 1000-1500pt range army list. My suggestions would be:

- Grab a BSB as soon as you think you can afford it. Having a base Ld8 on "elite" troops is bad.

- Give the Warriors halberds, they are by far the best weapon option.

- Bump the knights up to ~6-7 (you can save money by buying the 1-2 models on ebay rather than a whole box) so that they can lose a couple and still be killy.

Good luck!
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top