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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/damocles_.html

The Apocalypse series continues with an anthology this time. Damocles, containing four novella length stories about, you did not guess it, the Second Damocles Gulf Crusade. A new crusade against the Tau Epire, featuring Captain Kor'sarro Khan and the White Scars, and the Captain Kayvaan Shrike and the Raven Guard. The anthology contains the novellas:

Blood Oath by Phil Kelly
Broken Sword by Guy Haley
Black Leviathan by Ben Counter
Hunter’s Snare by Josh Reynolds

Black Library: Damocles said:
Two centuries ago, the Imperium of Man and the upstart Tau Empire fought to a standstill in the Damocles Gulf. Now, as the 41st millennium draws to a close, the tau have returned.

This collection brings together a wealth of brand new stories set in the Damocles Gulf. As the Tau Empire embarks on its most aggressive expansion yet, it is met by the near unstoppable power of the Imperial war machine. Both sides commit immense resources to the conflict - including their mightiest war machines, the tau Riptide battlesuit and the Imperial Knights. The stage is set for the greatest confrontation yet between the two empires.
On the whole it sounds quite good, especially the part about Riptides and Imperial Knights. No CD audio release this time, though an MP3 called Shape of the Hunt by Joe Parrino is also out and a short story called In Service to Shadows:

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/shape-of-the-hunt-mp3.html

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/in-service-to-shadows-ebook.html

Not sure about either of those two but the cover art for the audio is absolutely badass, a White Scar on a Bike doing a wheelie into a Tau Battlesuit's face. :biggrin:

I'll be ordering Damocles promptly, I really enjoyed Pandorax and three of the four authors here are those whose work I have always enjoyed, and the fourth I have not read (Kelly) but i'll give him a shot.

Edit: Just looked it up. This book is about Mu'gulath Bay, those who've read the Tau Codex will recognize this as one of their newer battles and the battle where the Riptide Battlesuit is deployed for the first time. Very interested in this now.


LotN
 

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I'm sort of tempted by this but I'll wait for you to review it. I'm just hoping it won't be four stories of how unstoppable and superior the Tau are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I'm sort of tempted by this but I'll wait for you to review it. I'm just hoping it won't be four stories of how unstoppable and superior the Tau are.
Well I doubt that it will be a Tau hype product considering that Josh Reynolds and Guy Haley are writing novellas, they are both good at showing the strengths and weaknesses of both sides, but there will be some instances of the Tau winning, this is Mu'gulath Bay which is one of their greatest victories against the Imperium.

But the information we have on that battle so far doesn't mention Astartes in any context. So this is likely set after Shadowsun wins the Battle for Mu'gulath Bay. Perhaps the Tau will keep their victory or the Imperium may wrest it away from them. We'll have to see.

I just hope that at some point an Imperial Knight fights a Riptide Battlesuit, that would be epic. :grin:

I've never read any Tau. Are these all new stories?
Yes, everything in this book is completely new.


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Very Excited for this. Big fan of the Tau (First army I collected) and the Idea of a book that not only features the Tau Heavily but also moves the Damocles plot along is very much my kind of book. Ill probably pick up everything on launch.

Also Riptides vs Knights sounds mindblowingly awesome. :grin:
 

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I hope this is not another giant product placement like Pandorax was... Will pick it up just because there are White Scars there, and hey, Bike in your face the audio, looks cool, but I am not optimistic about this one being all that good overall.
 

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I hope this is not another giant product placement like Pandorax was... Will pick it up just because there are White Scars there, and hey, Bike in your face the audio, looks cool, but I am not optimistic about this one being all that good overall.
Given that the blurb explicitly mentions Imperial Knights and Riptides product placement seems likely.
 

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But the information we have on that battle so far doesn't mention Astartes in any context. So this is likely set after Shadowsun wins the Battle for Mu'gulath Bay. Perhaps the Tau will keep their victory or the Imperium may wrest it away from them. We'll have to see.

LotN
Just read an excerpt, and it seems that this story details the original Tau attack on Agrellan.

Man, I hope this doesn't mean they somehow retcon the Tau into losing this war. That's what some people on B&C are hoping for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Just read an excerpt, and it seems that this story details the original Tau attack on Agrellan.

Man, I hope this doesn't mean they somehow retcon the Tau into losing this war. That's what some people on B&C are hoping for.
Excellent. Mu'gulath Bay is a great Tau battle and i'm looking forward to reading it tomorrow.

Imperials, bah. I recall reading somewhere that Damocles would be surprising for readers, perhaps this book will be a true Tau victory over the Imperium. At the very least if they do lose it should be a hard fought battle, but I would hate to see the Tau's advance stymied so early. The potential for stories there is so great, especially with the revelation that the Zeist Campaign was just a feint.


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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
To Lord of the Night

Please provide us with spoilers for all 4 novellas:

I'm interested whose side each author wrote for; is where any victory for the Imperials. who are usually used as dummies for mighty tau to shoot at; how White Scars and Raven Guard are represented?
Okay here are the spoilers you asked for;

Blood Oath by Phil Kelly;



Broken Sword by Guy Haley;



Black Leviathan by Ben Counter;



Hunter's Snare by Josh Reynolds;




On the whole the book is very pro-Tau, the first and third stories are mainly about them crushing the Imperials while the second is a balanced look into the life of a human in the Tau Empire and the methods they use, while the fourth is a fairly balanced look at the way the Tau do battle and how it compares with how the White Scars, a fellow group of fast and patient hunters, fight. A review will be up tomorrow on Talk Wargaming, until then make of these spoilers what you will.


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@the ben counter one:

So a group of aliens who have no understanding of the warp whatsoever somehow encounter a group of Imperials who just so happen to know, what I assume to be, the/one of the most intimate secrets of one of the very two chapters sent to wipe them out (said secret is stupid as hell to begin with. herp derp we're hunting moby dick for life).

They then have the local humans under their control fashion a cloak that's so similar to the original, despite them never having seen it and having no means of fashioning a cloak made out of an actual daemon otherwise they'd be pawns of Chaos given their intimate understanding of the warp, that they can fool the actual Chapter obsessed with said cloak.

Holy shit.

@ the guy haley one: since when do the Tau have the ability to read minds, let alone the minds of alien races? They don't use machines apparently so how do these Nagi do it? Clearly it's not through the warp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
@the ben counter one:

So a group of aliens who have no understanding of the warp whatsoever somehow encounter a group of Imperials who just so happen to know, what I assume to be, the/one of the most intimate secrets of one of the very two chapters sent to wipe them out (said secret is stupid as hell to begin with. herp derp we're hunting moby dick for life).

They then have the local humans under their control fashion a cloak that's so similar to the original, despite them never having seen it and having no means of fashioning a cloak made out of an actual daemon otherwise they'd be pawns of Chaos given their intimate understanding of the warp, that they can fool the actual Chapter obsessed with said cloak.

Holy shit.
From the start;

They don't need to believe in Chaos to recognize that the Jade Dragons are obsessed with something that they can use.

They encounter an Imperial archivist who has knowledge of the supposed first incident because it isn't secret knowledge. What is secret knowledge is that the Jade Dragons had encountered the Leviathan before, it hunts them and they hunt it. And they use torture to extract the information from said archivist and use the Dragon's obsession with the Leviathan to goad them into making the exact moves that the Tau want them to make.

The archivist has seen it, the Inquisition briefly had it before losing it. And neither I nor the story said that it was actual Daemonskin, it just looked convincing enough on a vid-cast to fool the Jade Dragons into assaulting the Mechanicus, and once they had done that it was irrelevant if they realized that they'd been had, which since they had likely never truly seen the cloak, only heard descriptions of it, they did not.

You should actually read it before forming that kind of opinion. I've only given an outline of things in these spoilers, not the nuance and tone of the stories.

@ the guy haley one: since when do the Tau have the ability to read minds, let alone the minds of alien races? They don't use machines apparently so how do these Nagi do it? Clearly it's not through the warp.
The Nagi;

Warhammer Wiki said:
Sha'Galudd - Homeworld of the Nagi, a small species of highly intelligent worms known for their mind control abilities. When first discovered, the Nagi were hated creatures known as mindworms, but since the early violent conflicts, they have agreed a peace accord and joined the Tau Empire. Many Nagi now serve as advisors to the Ethereal caste.
That's how.


LotN
 

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From the start;

They don't need to believe in Chaos to recognize that the Jade Dragons are obsessed with something that they can use.
I didn't say that. I meant if the local humans made a cloak look so alike the original that it fooled a Chapter obsessed with it despite the locals never having seen it then they must be affiliated with Chaos and thus would have nothing to do with the Greater Good/Tau.

They encounter an Imperial archivist who has knowledge of the supposed first incident because it isn't secret knowledge. What is secret knowledge is that the Jade Dragons had encountered the Leviathan before, it hunts them and they hunt it. And they use torture to extract the information from said archivist and use the Dragon's obsession with the Leviathan to goad them into making the exact moves that the Tau want them to make.
What are the odds the Tau come across a group of Imperials with knowledge that proves to be the downfall of the Chapter sent to kill them? Of the thousand chapters, the Tau obtain knowledge about the Jade Dragons who just so happen to be on their way to wipe them out. It's too forced.

And it seems to me that it is a secret/something only someone within the chapter would know.

The archivist has seen it, the Inquisition briefly had it before losing it. And neither I nor the story said that it was actual Daemonskin,
-their history notes something called the Black Leviathan, a warp beast .

it just looked convincing enough on a vid-cast to fool the Jade Dragons into assaulting the Mechanicus, and once they had done that it was irrelevant if they realized that they'd been had, which since they had likely never truly seen the cloak, only heard descriptions of it, they did not.
Is it explained as to why the JD care about a cloak that someone they've never met reportedly made from their Moby Dick?

If not then, BC has made a new chapter of his making sound so pointless.

You should actually read it before forming that kind of opinion. I've only given an outline of things in these spoilers, not the nuance and tone of the stories.
It's a short story, a page or more I'm guessing. What else could you have left out from your review?

The Nagi;

That's how.

LotN
I assumed they were Tau not another race entirely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I didn't say that. I meant if the local humans made a cloak look so alike the original that it fooled a Chapter obsessed with it despite the locals never having seen it then they must be affiliated with Chaos and thus would have nothing to do with the Greater Good/Tau.
The humans didn't make it. The Tau did, using the information they had on the cloak from the archivist who had knowledge of it. The Jade Dragons on the planet had never seen it before but they knew what it supposedly looked like, and the fake was good enough to fool them, especially as they saw what they wanted to see.

What are the odds the Tau come across a group of Imperials with knowledge that proves to be the downfall of the Chapter sent to kill them? Of the thousand chapters, the Tau obtain knowledge about the Jade Dragons who just so happen to be on their way to wipe them out. It's too forced.

And it seems to me that it is a secret/something only someone within the chapter would know.
The secret is that the Jade Dragons have a history with the beast. As far as the Imperium knows two companies of Jade Dragons were present when an Inquisitor attempted to destroy the Black Leviathan and failed, and since then the Dragons have been hunting it ever since. What nobody outside the Chapter knows is that the Jade Dragons have met the Leviathan before and that the reason they are determined to kill it is that they believe the Leviathan is a reminder from fate that they are not the apex predator of the galaxy, and they wish to change that.

And the Tau used someone who was an Imperial archivist, who was basically a walking library on Imperial facts. He had a copy of the Noctis Vermillion in his head, a forgotten book that speaks of the Jade Dragons and the Black Leviathan, or at least what is known widely about them.

-their history notes something called the Black Leviathan, a warp beast .
Yes it is a Daemon. The Tau don't know that, they seem to think that the Dragons are obsessed with hunting down some kind of dangerous space creature. In the end it makes no difference to their strategy so why should they give a damn if the Dragons know it to be something that the Tau disclaim even exists.

Is it explained as to why the JD care about a cloak that someone they've never met reportedly made from their Moby Dick?

If not then, BC has made a new chapter of his making sound so pointless.
It is. The Black Leviathan is a harbinger of doom, whenever it's shadow has appeared Chaos has come swiftly in it's wake or has been revealed to have been there all along. The cloak has the same portent attached to it, wherever it has ended up Chaos has followed quickly or it ends up in places already rife with Chaos, just hidden. The Jade Dragons have enough of a track record with it to assume that Chaos is on Briseis as a result.

It's a short story, a page or more I'm guessing. What else could you have left out from your review?
I doubt that my description captures what Counter is trying to convey. Unless I cut and copy actual passages from the book which i'm not going to do, then I am not getting across the meaning behind the words and I may be missing somethings out unintentionally.


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Based on your review Lord of the Night, I've bought the book. I'm with the Imperium to the bloody end but this book still sounds interesting and I don't mind some Tau fluff (I was actually disappointing that they barely appeared in For the Greater Good).
 

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Lord of the night - now, that i have completed full book i could say about visible editors errors in this book. :(
Editors have missed a big timeline and locations holes in this book.
 
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