[bfmmoney]

I have a few questions for you 40k vets out there. I am interested in starting an army for 40k. I have a little expirience with fantasy, with an alright grasp of the rules and flow of play, but I have been much more involved with painting and modeling up to this point.
With that in mind, I am totally enamored with the look and story behind the daemonhunters. The GK Terminators look absolutely awesome, and the possibilities for inquisitor and retinue modeling and conversion is a very attractive quality. BUT I have been told they are a difficult army to start playing with, and through the rough army building I've been doing they look to be pretty expensive too.

-Is it a bad idea to start off with a daemonhunter army?

-How much should I expect to spend?

-What would your suggestions be for a good beginning, basic, and balanced army, using grey knights and centered around majority inquisitorial forces?

-Is it okay to take some liberties on model choices? For example, I really like the cadian kaskrin models to represent the storm troopers, but I if I were to have two units of them, it would cost me less then half the price and still look fierce to use cadian shock troops all jazzed up in red and grey. Also - if I were to order the Solomon Lok forgeworld figure for use as an iquisitor, could I use some dark angel vet marines for the warriors in his retinue?

-What kind of stratagy would a solid army be built around? I like the idea of a lot of deep striking GKs but I really don't how good of an idea that is...

I don't really have a store in my area or anyone to play with locally, so I don't have easy access to advice and don't want to show up to some event two hours away to get criticized for something stupid.

Well, any suggestions and advice you have would be appreciated. I look forward to participating on the forums and interacting with everybody.
Thanks!

-Matt

 

[Hicks]

-Is it a bad idea to start off with a daemonhunter army?

Well be warned that the codex is dated and can easily be considered the weakest in all of 40K. That said, you should also go for the army you think looks the coolest. You seem to really like the Daemon Hunters as a whole, so I would advise you to start them.

Even though they aren't easy to win with, it's still possible. If you don't mind taking advantage of the Allies rule, you can even had some great elements from the SM and IG codices. DH armies generally lack numbers and anti-tank weapons, so taking a couple squads of IG can really help.

-How much should I expect to spend?

Lots, sadly all the infantry is metal (unless you use allies) and the wonderfull GK terminators are especially expensive. Also keep in mind that the 5 man Grey Knight box is pretty bad value for money as if you buy many you will end up with way too much Justicars and Incinerators.

-What would your suggestions be for a good beginning, basic, and balanced army, using grey knights and centered around majority inquisitorial forces?

Again, I would advise that you go for what you think would look the coolest. As an exemple, pure Grey Knight armies are really hard to win with (some may disagree, but I would dare to say impossible to win with against certain armies). If it can help, HQ wise I would strongly advise a GK grandmaster. He his a monster period! He's competitor, the inquisitor lord isn't, at most he can make an ok heavy weapon squad, but... he allows you to take some great units such as assassins.
Storm Troopers aren't the greatest troop choice in the world either, so I wouldn't load up on them too much. I wouldn't be ashamed of min-maxing my squads to carry as much plasma death as possible. A mix of GKs and Guard infantry could be a good compromise. Termies fortunatly are as good on the table as they look in the display cabinet, by all mean get some.

-Is it okay to take some liberties on model choices? For example, I really like the cadian kaskrin models to represent the storm troopers, but I if I were to have two units of them, it would cost me less then half the price and still look fierce to use cadian shock troops all jazzed up in red and grey. Also - if I were to order the Solomon Lok forgeworld figure for use as an iquisitor, could I use some dark angel vet marines for the warriors in his retinue?

Depends who you play. By WYSIWYG that wouldn't be permited, but if you at least try to bulk up the Cadians I'd consider it ok. While the DA vets would look cool, they would cause problem because they are a unit that exists in another codex and an Inquisitor retinue is far from having the powerlevel of marines.

-What kind of stratagy would a solid army be built around? I like the idea of a lot of deep striking GKs but I really don't how good of an idea that is...

If you want to deepstrike GKs, you could mount Storm Troopers with teleport homers in chimeras and hope for the best. I'd like to give you better advice but I haven't played with my DH for a long long time. I have been playing with pure GKs a bit though so if you're interrested in that I would be of much better help.



Welcome to the Ordo and remember not to give up if/when you lose your first couple of battles.

 

[Isafrehn]

some anwsers to your questions

-I would most likely start off with some SM then add them in and play a couple battles as that give a sense of what their like and some ideas on things you might want to add or take away, I think it's easier to add them to an army than make the Daemonhunters from experiences with them

-You should expect to spend the most you've probably ever spent on an army unless you want to make it very small.

-i would go with what i said earlier and go with experiences w/ them as an allied force.

-Yeah it's nice to take liberties and i personally enjoy the look of them.

-deep striking is nice but since they can't get into close combat off the deep strike and you've have not very many of them because of their points cost they'd probably get killed w/ tons of enemy fire, but they could also lay down alot of firepower. I would definetely make use of their shrouding and just make them walk right up to the enemy and maybe it there was like a one way access point i would place orbital bombardement there, you'll need some Kasrkin or else you'll have like no men.
In all you'll really have to develop your own strategy.

It would probably help if you got some inducted IG or else you couldn' really get any ordinance, and maybe an infantry platoon or two to add some more men and firepower.

 

[asianavatar]

Greyknights are a pretty good looking army. However, they are can be pretty hard to play and expensive to collect as they are mostly metal models. It becomes easier to play and collect if you mix in some imperial guard units,however that kind of takes away from the look and feel of them. I play witchhunters so I am kinda in the same situation as you however witchhunters are a little easier to play. So I will give you some of my advice that I have learned.

1) Expect to spend quite a bit. Last time I checked I think 5 greyknight terminators were almost $100 canadian and 10 normal greyknights were about $50. You can save money with conversions and stuff but it will cost you more than other armies.

2) Feel free to use cadian shock troops as imperial storm troopers (that is what I did). To get them to look right I would suggest doing some modifications to them. Add on some backpacks, connect some wire from the backpacks to the guns and snip the barrels off the lasguns. Also you might want to putty some facemasks on them. If you want me to post pics of mine let me know.

3) Inquisitor models and retinues are awesome chances for conversion. Personally I bought the Solomon Lok model cause I thought it was too cool. But an inquisitor can be modelled after almost any model so start converting same with the retinue. The more unique and different the better.

4) The idea of a pretty mobile army sounds good. Add some Imperial Storm Troopers in rhinos, maybe some assassins and a unit of greyknight terminators and you should have a decent start. I am sure someone in this forum will add some extra points on this. Oh yeah definitely have a grand master. That is one dirty character that will rip most things to shreds.

Good luck with the army

 

[Bloodhound]

-Is it a bad idea to start off with a daemonhunter army?

To start off with DH, you might have some trouble with the playing of it. It's a difficult army to fully understand because of some special rules inside the codex. If you just plan on converting and painting as you say you sorta are, go right ahead. But if you plan to play with this army, make sure you get some help and advice (I'm a GK player myself, so you can ask me if you want) before you go out and play massive battles with experienced people.

-How much should I expect to spend?

DaemonHunters are a very expensive army to collect. The average grey knight costs twice as much as a space Marine. The terminators are even crazier. 5 Termis for 95 AUD? You kidding me?

-What would your suggestions be for a good beginning, basic, and balanced army, using grey knights and centered around majority inquisitorial forces?

Well, if my memory serves me right, I'm pretty sure that if you use grey knights in the army, you can't have any allies unless you're playing Apoc. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The thing about Grey Knights is that you have very little anti-tank weapons. You always have your own tanks, but they take up alot of points.

-Is it okay to take some liberties on model choices? For example, I really like the cadian kaskrin models to represent the storm troopers, but I if I were to have two units of them, it would cost me less then half the price and still look fierce to use cadian shock troops all jazzed up in red and grey. Also - if I were to order the Solomon Lok forgeworld figure for use as an iquisitor, could I use some dark angel vet marines for the warriors in his retinue?

You COULD but other players prefer you didn't to avoid confusion. Proxy models really do save you money and such, but I'd avoid them if I could.

-What kind of stratagy would a solid army be built around? I like the idea of a lot of deep striking GKs but I really don't how good of an idea that is...

The main one is don't die. That aside, keep into cover. You will get shot alot because most armies fear you in combat. Get to the enemy as fast as you can (Maybe use a couple of land raider crusaders?) and assault them. If your squad of Knights assault, you will win unless you're up against another elite combat squad.




The main thing is to look around the forum and find any info you can. Read the rulebook and codex a few times to really get to know the rules and try to memorise everything about everything you use. Nothing worse than forgetting what some ability lets you do and then realising it when you lost many men.
It happened to me loads of times. I forget that Azrael (Dark Angels) gives his squad a 4+ inv save after I lose the whole squad.

And most of all, Have fun.
Don't get discouraged if you lose.
I won my first 40k game after a 100-ish losses.
I was so proud *wipes tear*

 

[A Soporific]

Cadian Kaskrins ARE a kind of Storm Trooper. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using them as your Storm Trooper Choice. They have the hellguns, the carapice armor, the free grenades, and the cheapest of the heavy weapons choices out of the box. Provided that you make sure that they look EXACTLY like what they are in play. If you buy them a plasma weapon, but the model is holding a flame thrower then you have a guy holding a flamethrower who doesn't know how to use it. It sucks all around. So, if you go with Kaskrin it will cost you less, but you have to modify the models to make them work. I would, personally, not risk it. I'm not confident in my crafting ability.

I'm using them as my Imperial Gaurd Stormtrooper Choice.

 

[Ordo Xeno Commander]

GK can ally with other forces. I often see GK with Witch Hunters or accompanying an Inquisitor in an IG or SM army.

but yes, they are very very expensive to collect, and even worse to paint well.

i would honestly advise against it. start with an IG or SM army, and include an inquisitor and some GK's in it to get a feel for them and see if you really like them.

 

[Asmodai]

i would honestly advise against it. start with an IG or SM army, and include an inquisitor and some GK's in it to get a feel for them and see if you really like them.

I agree. Grey Knights are a challenging and frustrating army for expert players to learn with. I wouldn't recommend them as a first army.

I considered a GK army at one point, but it would have been about $600 Canadian (for 2,000) and it would rely overly much on a couple really powerful units.

Cadian Kasrkin make great Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and are used as such all the time. For special weapons they have Flamer, Grenade Launcher, Plasma Gun and Meltagun options - so that shouldn't really be an issue.

My suggestion would be to start with a balanced Guard force with a unit or two of GK allies. You can swap over most of the Guard units into the GK army when you decide to emphasize that portion, and the GK (especially Terminators) does a good job of shoring up the Guard's weakness in close combat.

 

[Isafrehn]

My suggestion would be to start with a balanced Guard force with a unit or two of GK allies. You can swap over most of the Guard units into the GK army when you decide to emphasize that portion, and the GK (especially Terminators) does a good job of shoring up the Guard's weakness in close combat.

That's exactly what i did and i worked well and it helped me get a feel for them and know i'm on my way to a larger DH force that partially broke off my guard.

 

[bfmmoney]

Thanks for your advice everybody!
I have been doing alot of reading online today and think it would be in my best interest to start off with a lot of IG and a squad of Grey Knights and a squad of GK Terminators with a Grand Master (I can still use one if I use GKs as allies, right? Right???), it being an absolutely awesome fighter that we all can agree on. I'm pretty sure I read that you can't have GKs and Space Marines in the same force, though correct me if I am wrong. From there I can work on eventually moving in more of the Daemonhunter and Iquisition forces, with a basic Iquisitor, his retinue, and some assassins as well as some more GKs and a Daemonhunter dreadnought if it seems like a good idea when that time comes. I think this will spread out the cost of the models vs. the points gained in a much more financially viable way as well.

My new question then would be what sorts of units would be good IG choices to work with a few tough and costly grey knights?

Also: I would love to see any pictures you have of your army and conversions, asianavatar, or anyones at that.

Thanks again for everybodies help so far!

-Matt

 

[Asmodai]

My new question then would be what sorts of units would be good IG choices to work with a few tough and costly grey knights?

Well, to start with you need a Command HQ squad and either 2 Infantry Platoons or an Infantry Platoon and an Armoured First Squad. Either way you're looking at 40-80 men right there.

After that you'd probably want some firepower - Anti-Tank and Fire Support squads attached to your HQ and tanks of various sorts.

An alternative approach would be to an aggressive list with Rough Riders, and mechanized units supported by Hellhounds and Demolishers. That might be harder to do well with though.

Another alternative is to take the Grenadiers doctrine which lets you take Stormtroopers to fulfill your Troops requirements. If you do that, it's relatively cheap to mechanize and you have tons of points left over for fire support, tanks and Grey Knights at the expense of having many fewer bodies on the table.

 

[Gore Hunter]

Daemon hunters are an ace Army
especially if you use integral marine forces with
Give a grand master a 4 Terminator Retinue (including a Brother captain) mount them in a Land Raider with shrouding they are tough nuts to crack.

 

[Blackhiker]

The afore mentioned strategy is quite a good on. I have been playing daemonhunters for a little over a year now and have tried out a lot of different strategies. Personally I would suggest a few infantry platoons and a couple of Karskin squads for the core of your IG army. That way when you start adding GK to your army the knights become a decent core. And also if you are planning to eventually go full-fledged DH eventually then I would suggest getting primarily units that are good for IG and for DH. I know this seems obvious, but I have met people who have done some really weird things. But as everyone has said for the ,ost part, DH are very strong, but expensive and lacking punch to get rid of pesky enemy armor.

 

[A Soporific]

I don't know DH lists that well.

Do you have a free Fast Attack slot or two? If so a squad of Lascannon Sentinels is a good, cheap tankbuster for you.

 

[Blackhiker]

the core DH list has only GK as a fast attack in which case they deep strike

 

[A Soporific]

So the use of some Sentinels could be something to look into.

 

[Blackhiker]

That does sound good, but only 1 sentinel squad is allowed though it might be enough.

 

[A Soporific]

They have the Scout rules, which really puts them in the right place early on. Three of them together should pack enough punch to take on even heavy armor.

I'm looking but I really don't see anything out that is a no-brainer for tank-killing. The rest is bigger on giving volume of fire.