[Perrind]

Ok, so I've been reading through the main rulebook and Scyrah book, and This is the list I'm wanting to field in a 35pts game:

Adeptis Rahn (+6pts)

Phoenix Myrmidon x 4 (10pts each)

After everything is added up, I can run with 41 pts, but I want a full mech-ish list. One of the things I had always wanted to do in 40k was either run a full MC or Mech list, and if I read the rules right, I should be able to run with that list in a 35pts game, no? And if I wanted to run nothing but Phoenixs (which is what I want to do) in bigger games, I should still be able to, right?

 

[scscofield]

If the Phoenix is FA U or if Adeptis makes them FA U then yes you could do it. The problem is focus to make the Jacks do anything worthwhile. It is very hard to do jack heavy armies and have them be effective because of the need of focus. Without focus jacks can't really shine. Menoth can do a jack heavy army well but it is because of all the support units and solos that boost the jacks without focus.

 

[Perrind]

Yeah, Phoenix's have FA U. Do they have to have Focus to be able to do anything?

Adeptis Rahn has 8 focus. In a 35pts game, with only 4 of them, would it work out alright?

Thanks for the reply, btw!

 

[scscofield]

If you want a Jack to charge, run, do special attacks, get extra attacks, or shake off a knock down/ stationary effect then they would need focus for those things. They can still move normal and do basic attacks with each weapon they have but to make a jack effective and get the most out of it they need focus. Focus management is a fairly major aspect of the game. It is also a major limiter in terms of Jack heavy lists. You can add in Jack Marshals to help reduce this and some races have means of gaining extra focus.

Pretty much anything over a couple jacks and you start limiting yourself in terms of what your army and warcaster can do. With focus starved Jacks you most likely will see a lot of players just ignoring them and rushing your caster. The more focus you spend on your jacks the weaker he is to resisting damage. If you keep all your focus on the caster, the jacks will suffer.

 

[Perrind]

Good to know! I think I'll just run the Adeptis Rahn theme list. That will make Shyeel Battle Mages FA U.

Then my 35pts list will look like this:

Adeptis Rahn (+6pts)
Shyeel Battle Mages - 5pts
Shyeel Battle Mages - 5pts
Shyeel Battle Mages - 5pts
Shyeel Battle Mages - 5pts
Phoenix Myrmidon - 10pts
Phoenix Myrmidon - 10pts

 

[Perrind]

That will also let me run an Arcanist Solo for free, too!

 

[scscofield]

That list would be much more effective than the other yes.

 

[maddermax]

Well, I'm not a Retribution player, but I'll give it my best shot

Firstly, I generally don't recommend theme lists or spam lists to starting players. Some can work, the Rhan theme list is actually pretty nice generally, but it gives you a very narrow set of options that don't always work well with other casters, and having a variety of different options is often better to get a broad feel for the game. The Rhan list, in particular, is only legal because of his theme list, so there are 2 units of them that you would never be able to take in any other list. If anything, only take Rhan's list to tier 2 or 3, get the free Arcanist and leave the redundant units of tier 4 until later. He can also take Houseguard units, so a unit of Houseguard Halberdiers might be a good idea, as they make better front line troops to take charges and keep your Battle mages from being tied up.

As mentioned, outside of a few specialized casters, running more than a couple of jacks becomes difficult because of Focus limitations - Jacks need focus to perform at their points level. Jacks are more like... specialized problem solvers. They are power at a point, a point upon which the game may hinge that is, with the option to boost and power attack when needed and they're fairly sturdy, but it's still infantry that do the general fighting duties in most lists. If you want more jacks you can always try marshaling one to a unit of Dawnguard sentinels (but only with the U/A who has Pronto), though obviously that wouldn't be in the Rahn theme list.

A few general suggestions though - consider picking up the battlebox set, just for learning on. Kaylssa isn't bad, and you'll get a bit of use out of the jacks. Secondly, consider trying to magnetize the heavy jack kits that you get (and the heavy in the battle-box if you get it), so you can have a selection of jacks when you want it.

. Thirdly, start small. 15 and 20pt battles while you learn the ropes is fine

 

[Aggy]

your last list is only 29 points. Add in a couple solos and your set. Theme lists are a great place to start in my opinion. Read everything on the cards, and the forces book, of your army of choice and memorize the rules that work specifically for your list. For instance, I will talk Khador because that is the faction I know, MoW Drakhun has counter charge so I needed to remember this so that when an enemy comes within 6 inches of my Drakhun I got an interrupt to counter charge and do some damage. Theme lists are fun, but not always competitive. I recommend the last list you posted, with a few additions to the list to make it 35 points, and you will be set. Learn the rules and play as many games as you like. I recommend also that you stick with 15 to 25 point battles until you learn the game because frankly bigger battles are harder to manage. Small point games is where you should be when you are learning this game, or any table top war game.