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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm fairly new to Warhammer and have a ~1700 pt Eldar army assembled. My friends play IG, Tau, 'Crons, 'Nids, and Chaos so I'm looking for input to make my list into more of a "take all" type.

I've been considering Avatar/Eldrad, Harlies, Warwalkers, a fireprism, and wraithguard because I have to go up against so much different stuff. The Necron monolith ignores bright lances, the IG friend plays a strong defense w/ basilisk, the Nid player has 2 Fexs, ranged Tyrant, and loves genestealers/broodlords. The Chaos player is Thousand sons w/ Ahrimon.

Hope the formatting comes out legible here, copying from MS Word. Again i'm looking for advice that would fill in the gaps with this army to play against any team theoretically... the games are friendly but I wouldn't mind a fairly competitive list :).


HQ
Farseer: Singing spear, spirit stones fortune, guide
Warlock: conceal
165
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Elites
Fire Dragons (5)
Fire Dragon Exarch: firepike, crack shot
Howling Banshees (9)
Banshee Exarch: mirror swords, war shout
351
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Transport
Wave Serpent: Twin linked shuriken catapults, energy field twin linked bright lances
135
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Troops
Pathfinders (5)
Pathfinders (5)
Pathfinders (5)
360
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Fast Attack
Swooping Hawks (5)
Hawk Exarch: sunrifle , skyleap
163
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Heavy Support
Dark Reapers (4)
Reaper Exarch: tempest launcher, fast shot
Wraithlord: Shuriken catapult, flamer, bright lance, wraithsword
Falcon: Pulse laser, bright lance, shuricannon, holo-field , spirit stones
427
____________________________________________________________________

1703



w00t for first post here :mrgreen:


thanks for the heads up dan

Post fixed for legibility
 

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it breeches GW copyright crap to post point cost of individual items, my suggestion is to just post unit costs.

List looks pretty good, im assuming dragons in Falcon, Banshees in WS. I noticed you have 2 banshee exarchs, i believe this is illegal. tempest launcher is a waste (from what most people say).

Do you already have the models or are you looking to buy? If you don't have your models yet i can make some suggestions to make your list a little better against your friends list but still keep it competitive vs all...
~dan
 

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Discussion Starter #3
it breeches GW copyright crap to post point cost of individual items, my suggestion is to just post unit costs.

List looks pretty good, im assuming dragons in Falcon, Banshees in WS. I noticed you have 2 banshee exarchs, i believe this is illegal. tempest launcher is a waste (from what most people say).

Do you already have the models or are you looking to buy? If you don't have your models yet i can make some suggestions to make your list a little better against your friends list but still keep it competitive vs all...
~dan
I forget why I listed the 2nd exarch... I plan to use the one with mirrorswords anyway

I already have this list, my friends have been getting me into Warhammer over the last few weeks and I was able to get this second hand, assembled but unpainted. I like this list but I feel like it's very imbalanced, because of the heavy reliance on pathfinders and the utter lack of "mowing power" against something like a Nid swarm.

Didn't know the Tempest launcher was considered bad, TL and fast shot makes the exarch powerful but expensive -- anyway I figure I won't field Dark Reapers most of the time, against thousand sons, yes.

So i'm looking to expand my list beyond what's here so I'll have some selection in 1500 pt games that allows me a wide degree of versatility.

Hope that's clear, I'm pretty new to all this and appreciate the time for your input.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
if you need mass fire power, go with warp spiders or dire avengers. Blade storm does wonders if used correctly.

~dan
I've been considering Dire Avengers for their low points cost and high mowing power. I've also considered 3 warwalkers with Scatter laser or EML for volume-oriented firepower at a decent range.

I've been hesitant about Warp Spiders because of their unit cost and low range; the types of things I have to mow aren't something I want to assault, so the 12" range seems pretty dangerous to me... their second hop helps out but that's not something I'd want to rely on.

If i get a good mower like DA I'll still need a way to take out the monolith, ATM that would be my Wraithlord assaulting it with his sword but since that's really my only shot at killing it he'd be a fool to let me get close.
 

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If i get a good mower like DA I'll still need a way to take out the monolith, ATM that would be my Wraithlord assaulting it with his sword but since that's really my only shot at killing it he'd be a fool to let me get close.
You'd be suprised how brave necron players are with those things. If your looking for anti monolith, wraithguard are the answer. But that doesn't solve your anti horde problem.

~dan
 

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I see a good start; but lets hone it for max effectiveness and versatility so its "All Comers" ready.

HQ
Farseer: Singing spear, spirit stones fortune, guide
Warlock: conceal
Concealing figures that already have a 4+ invulnerable save is near useless, take Embolden to re-roll tests, or Enhance to gain CC punch, or a Destructor to add a little Roasting power to them, or even better, simply drop the Warlock. I take it the Farseer is going over by the Dark Reapers, due to his configuration; but do you really need Guid and the Spirit Stones.... Runes of Warding is also very good for enemy psycher suppression. Seriosly though Eldrad is the best foot based Farseer in the game, so if you have the points, just get him.

Elites
Fire Dragons (5)
Fire Dragon Exarch: firepike, crack shot
The Firepike is not well suited to go with Crackshot, so either drop Crackshot, or change the firepike to the Dragons Breath Flamer, the Flamer is so versatile it rediculous. Roast enemies in cover combined with Crackshot and you get to re-roll wounds and they get no cover saves. Trust me, DBF and CS is cheaper and way more effective than the Firepike. And you still have enough (5) shots that will drop most any vehicle. Now put them in a Falcon and deliver where needed.
Howling Banshees (9)
Banshee Exarch: mirror swords, war shout
"All Comers" lists do better with the Executioner as it does allow for some light vehicle potential as well as the ability to take down tougher enemies. Also, I have needed Warshot (or Acrobat) as you should be picking your fights appropriately and you should also be charging.

Transport
Wave Serpent: Twin linked shuriken catapults, energy field twin linked bright lances
Not sure what you trying to do here, take the TL-Shuri-cannons and the regular Catapult, add S-stones and Vectored Engines and you will get your "Cargo" on sight safely. A good opponent will shake the vehicle as often as possible, so any/all guns are near useless if your using it as a Transport.

Troops
Pathfinders (5)
Pathfinders (5)
Pathfinders (5)
These are solid choices and will serve you in Excalation missions, as well as many other applications. Nice to see them, now just stick them in some cover and watch the enemy try to force their 2+ cover save.... They are resilient as heck.

Fast Attack
Swooping Hawks (5)
Hawk Exarch: sunrifle , skyleap
Add Intercept as well, so that you hit vehilces on a 4+, also one more Hawk wouldn't hurt. They can drop any vehicle in the game (Monolith included); but don't stop there, their SH-Grenade can be dropped as they come onto the table, and then during hte movement pahse they can actually skyleap immediately so that the enemy can never even get a chance to get at them. They are also gret for Range/Mobile sniping... Very versatile just real fragileso be careful how you place them and move them.
Heavy Support
Dark Reapers (4)
Reaper Exarch: tempest launcher, fast shot
The EML would give you more versatility than the TL... as it can drop vehicles and infantry alike and has decent AP. Just something to think about. Set these guys in cover, close to the Farseer, with a good LOS of the table, and they will do well. Try to keep them safe from getting assaulted.
Wraithlord: Shuriken catapult, flamer, bright lance, wraithsword
4th Ed, put the downscale on Wraithlords in HtH, so I suggest you keep him as a mobile shooter. BL and EML gives the best vehicle/MC/infantry potential and very little extra in the way of points. Keep him close to those Reapers and the Farseer and many opponents will focus on him instead of them (so Fortune accordingly).
Falcon: Pulse laser, bright lance, shuricannon, holo-field , spirit stones
Once again, a little too many guns and not enough defensive upgrades. (185) Falcon: Pulse, Shuri-cannon, Cat, Holo-field, S-stones, and Vectored Engines. Is one of the best Delivery style Falcons in the game. It still has 5 Str=6 shots to help support your army, and it is so hard to knock down that those FD's will travel in almomst pure safety. Smart opponents will at least shake evey Tank you have (every turn) so try not to put to many points into the guns.

I did not figure out the points for you.... You have the Codex, read about the suggestions I made. I play competitive lists and have for years, so think about how to use each unit, then add on 1 second job that they can do with minimal points cost, and then figure out how all of your units can work together. When this is done well, the Eldar are neaer unstopable.

Cheers and Happy Gaming.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I see a good start; but lets hone it for max effectiveness and versatility so its "All Comers" ready.

HQ
Farseer: Singing spear, spirit stones fortune, guide
Warlock: conceal
Concealing figures that already have a 4+ invulnerable save is near useless, take Embolden to re-roll tests, or Enhance to gain CC punch, or a Destructor to add a little Roasting power to them, or even better, simply drop the Warlock. I take it the Farseer is going over by the Dark Reapers, due to his configuration; but do you really need Guid and the Spirit Stones.... Runes of Warding is also very good for enemy psycher suppression. Seriosly though Eldrad is the best foot based Farseer in the game, so if you have the points, just get him.

Elites
Fire Dragons (5)
Fire Dragon Exarch: firepike, crack shot
The Firepike is not well suited to go with Crackshot, so either drop Crackshot, or change the firepike to the Dragons Breath Flamer, the Flamer is so versatile it rediculous. Roast enemies in cover combined with Crackshot and you get to re-roll wounds and they get no cover saves. Trust me, DBF and CS is cheaper and way more effective than the Firepike. And you still have enough (5) shots that will drop most any vehicle. Now put them in a Falcon and deliver where needed.
Howling Banshees (9)
Banshee Exarch: mirror swords, war shout
"All Comers" lists do better with the Executioner as it does allow for some light vehicle potential as well as the ability to take down tougher enemies. Also, I have needed Warshot (or Acrobat) as you should be picking your fights appropriately and you should also be charging.

Transport
Wave Serpent: Twin linked shuriken catapults, energy field twin linked bright lances
Not sure what you trying to do here, take the TL-Shuri-cannons and the regular Catapult, add S-stones and Vectored Engines and you will get your "Cargo" on sight safely. A good opponent will shake the vehicle as often as possible, so any/all guns are near useless if your using it as a Transport.

Troops
Pathfinders (5)
Pathfinders (5)
Pathfinders (5)
These are solid choices and will serve you in Excalation missions, as well as many other applications. Nice to see them, now just stick them in some cover and watch the enemy try to force their 2+ cover save.... They are resilient as heck.

Fast Attack
Swooping Hawks (5)
Hawk Exarch: sunrifle , skyleap
Add Intercept as well, so that you hit vehilces on a 4+, also one more Hawk wouldn't hurt. They can drop any vehicle in the game (Monolith included); but don't stop there, their SH-Grenade can be dropped as they come onto the table, and then during hte movement pahse they can actually skyleap immediately so that the enemy can never even get a chance to get at them. They are also gret for Range/Mobile sniping... Very versatile just real fragileso be careful how you place them and move them.
Heavy Support
Dark Reapers (4)
Reaper Exarch: tempest launcher, fast shot
The EML would give you more versatility than the TL... as it can drop vehicles and infantry alike and has decent AP. Just something to think about. Set these guys in cover, close to the Farseer, with a good LOS of the table, and they will do well. Try to keep them safe from getting assaulted.
Wraithlord: Shuriken catapult, flamer, bright lance, wraithsword
4th Ed, put the downscale on Wraithlords in HtH, so I suggest you keep him as a mobile shooter. BL and EML gives the best vehicle/MC/infantry potential and very little extra in the way of points. Keep him close to those Reapers and the Farseer and many opponents will focus on him instead of them (so Fortune accordingly).
Falcon: Pulse laser, bright lance, shuricannon, holo-field , spirit stones
Once again, a little too many guns and not enough defensive upgrades. (185) Falcon: Pulse, Shuri-cannon, Cat, Holo-field, S-stones, and Vectored Engines. Is one of the best Delivery style Falcons in the game. It still has 5 Str=6 shots to help support your army, and it is so hard to knock down that those FD's will travel in almomst pure safety. Smart opponents will at least shake evey Tank you have (every turn) so try not to put to many points into the guns.

I did not figure out the points for you.... You have the Codex, read about the suggestions I made. I play competitive lists and have for years, so think about how to use each unit, then add on 1 second job that they can do with minimal points cost, and then figure out how all of your units can work together. When this is done well, the Eldar are neaer unstopable.

Cheers and Happy Gaming.


I really appreciate that advice! Like I said I'm very new so I based those decisions on pretty limited knowledge. Also these figures are mostly second hand so I don't have any other bits for the vehicles, or the DBF for that matter. I will see to acquiring them, as having brightlances on everything isn't my first choice.

Farseer: Eldrad is on my buy list

Warlock: plan on dropping

Banshees: i have another exarch with executioner ;)

Pathfinders: look forward to using them, the cover save is nice. BTW I was considering merging some into a squad of 10 that I could Guide, and then drop just about anything on legs...

Hawks: Yeah I've gathered it takes a certain finesse to use them properly, I'm going to play around with them a bit, but I probably won't field them the majority of the time, as my main opponent will be a Tyranid horde. Maybe yo-yoing against the IG opponent would work...

I'm worried about dropping the sword from the WL, isn't this really the best anti-monolith I have? There's the haywire grenades but chances of a penetrating hit are low, and then there's Firedragons that need to get inside the Monolith's 12" D6 death radius and then need 6s on AP.

Once again, appreciate the advice
-Abs
 

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You really don't need to guide Pathfinders, those would be pretty over the top.

Just Doom their target and fire away.

Lemartes
 

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You really don't need to guide Pathfinders, those would be pretty over the top.

Just Doom their target and fire away.

Lemartes
your probably right... but a farseer can use 2 powers a turn so if he lingers at the back whilest someones cc trys to go for rangers it might be good to have it
 

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Do you really need to Guide those Pathfinders ?

They hit on 2+ due Ranger Rifles - 10 Shots / 6 - 1.7 Misses ...

Is it really worth to pay 25 Points for Guidance then ?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You guys are right about guiding Pathfinders, I had their to-hit and to-wound numbers reversed in my head, my bad

What they need are "doomed' targets and plenty of cover.

Anyway, I played that list last night (scaled down to 1500 so I dropped the Hawks and the Warlock). Didn't go over so well, Dark Reapers got lictored in the first game, in the second game (escalation) they showed up on turn 4. Pathfinders got locked in cc by a deepstriking ravener, Falcon and Waveserpent are capable craft but Dakkafex and VenomTyrant and other stuff kept them unable to shoot for a while. Wraithlord was too slow to get much accomplished, and the one time I used Firedragons to nuke a Tyrant it survived with 1 wound left.

Most of the problems were caused by dense terrain placement that blocked LOS and gave the nids a plethora of completely blocked hiding places.

I've been toying with list after list in my mind trying to come up with something that has mowing power, speed, staying power, and versatility. This is what i've come up with, comments appreciated:

HQ
Avatar
Eldrad

Elites
10 banshees inc/ exarch w/ executioner

Transport
waveserpent (TL bright lance, vectored engines, spirit stones)

Troops
10 Dire Avengers inc/exarch w/dual cats & bladestorm
8 pathfinders

fast attack
2 vypers (scatter lasers)

Heavy
2 Fire Prisms (holofields, SS)

~1500 points

And finally my reasoning:
Eldrad/Avatar with DAs form a powerful core that can mow assaulters and Avatar can break up anything tough that tries to lock me in cc. Moving up the middle asap I can doom enemies for my pathfinders and DAs while fortuning the Avatar. Waveserpent can deploy banshees against armor the Pathfinders can't hit, and the TL brightlances can pop a vehicle. Vypers can run around independently to pick off infantry or more importantly, pop vehicles via side armor. Two fireprisms provides a heavy firing base that can provide quick reliable fire across the playing field, effective against almost anything.
 

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Vyper Jetbike w/ 1x Scatter Lasers - 60 Points

Compare that to :

Vyper Jetbike w/ 2x Shuricen Canon - 60 Points

I'd change the weapons setup, so you have more shots.

This should be better, since Vypers are just BS 3.

Lemartes
 

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looks good but i think you'll have trouble against a combat heavy army
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
I had to think a long time about the Vyper weapons before I gave it the scatter laser, I realize it has more shots at better AP if i take dual shuricannons, however, the extra 12" of range is the big reason for me. Vypers are ridiculously fragile and most 24" infantry weapons can down them easily enough, bolter fire for instance. If infantry have 6" movement and 24" of fire that's a 30" threat radius to my vypers so the shuricannons are risky.

Although I will certainly try all the configurations over time...

The idea is definitely to avoid combat situations except where I can gang up to crush stragglers. With superior mobility I should be able to damage advancing troops greatly, forcing morale checks. I only have a few things that can get locked in CC and the lock-breaking Avatar is by the DAs and the Banshees are in a waveserpent that gets around quick.

No army is perfect of course, I was just aiming for mobility and firepower with some troops at the core that weren't pushovers.

Edit: What would help me against combat-heavy armies?

Thanks for the comments too.
 

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Hi,

I don't think that you'll get probelem with Combat Heavies, since you got a Fortuned Avatar, as well as 10 Banshees.

That should seal the deal, but do not forget to Doom the Banshees`oppnents.

Lemartes
 

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tempest launcher is a waste (from what most people say).


~dan
Actually when you get fast shot you have a better marine killer than you think. I enjoy the tempest launcher although it's range is shorter.
 
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