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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Alright, I'm new to this forum, and I just want to see what people think of my current force. Everything I got. (not that much)

Alrighty so, this is my Biel-tan army!

HQ:
Farseer Spear, Doom, Fortune, Guide, Stones: 153
Avatar of Khaine: 155

Troops:
2X Guardian squadron, 10 troops, scatter laser: 95 each
2x Avenger Squadron, 10 troops, exarch, dual catapults, bladestorm: 152 each

5 Pathfinders: 120


Heavy Support:
Wraithlord, Scatter laser, Bright lance: 150
Fire Prism: Shuriken cannon, Vectored engines, Star engines, Holo-fields: 185

Total Army: 1157 points
Comments would be EXTREMELY appreciated. Thanks everyone!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks.
Anything you can think of, how good or bad it is. If it is a pretty good force, or if I am completely out of my mind and should read the codex again. Maybe different units that might be good for the force, next units I should get, anything.

Know now that I am thinking of getting 2 squads of swooping hawks, using the hit and run strategy, to back up the assualt with the avengers.
 

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That is a great start on Troops, HQ's, and Heavy Support models

Two things to expand with, most will agree:

1. Elites (especially Fire Dragons, then possibly others)

2. Wave Serpents (they'll really help keep all your squishy walking units alive)

Between those and what you have already you will have a pretty decent little 1500 point list going.

As is the majority of your army is very slow and very fragile. (not counting the Fire Prism)

The Fire Prism is way over priced while being under priced. (oddly) What I mean is that the set up you have listed on him seems to run a total cost of 195 points, but you should never be looking to spend more than 170 (aim for 115-170 usually) on Fire Prisms. Fire Prisms have almost no need of going Flat Out and therefore have no need for Vectored Engines (things that do go Flat Out still don't really need them for that price). Using Star Engines will take away a turn of the Prism's shooting, that is not a fair trade as the Prism is fast enough to make it to a reasonable firing lane without having to sacrifice a shooting to do it. (sometimes useful, but not often enough)

The really useful upgrades for the Prism are either (in no particular order):
1. none (to go cheap in low point missions)
2. Spirit Stones (very useful to stay mobile, best to keep you safe from sneaky melee units like Genestealers)
3. Holo-Fields (try to take this to stay alive; increase in odds of Weapon Destroyed, though, which is better than Vehicle Destroyed by any means)
4. Shuriken Cannon (Rarely buy for in case the Prism Cannon gets blown off you'll still have something to shoot with.)
 

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I echo what Styro double-posted. :)

Transports are definitely needed. If you try and foot-slog, you will be minced by your opponents guns long before you can do anything. Heavy Bolters will be the death of you.

I would drop the Avatar. The only time I take that beast is if I have Eldrad nearby to fortune him. Otherwise, he will vanish pretty quick, as he is a bullet magnet. Plasma fire will be the death of him (or normal bolters, if my past performance is an indicator).

Really, your list can go in two directions:

If you go Heavy-Mech (everything is in a transport) drop your Avatar and Wraithlord. They are too slow and will wind up being unsupported. The points can be rolled into grav-tanks (like a second Prism and some Serpents). Get a small squad of Fire Dragons in a cheap Serpent. Maybe look at getting a dedicated CC unit that can ride in a Serpent. You should be noticing a theme at this point...

If you go Semi-Mech (a few transported units with some foot-sloggers) or Foot-List (which I would NOT recommend), keep the Avatar and Wraithlord. However, upgrade your Farseer to Eldrad. Get Eldrad a squad of Warlocks to hide out in. They can make a nice little bullet-sponge unit. Most importantly, Eldrad can keep Fortune on himself and on the Avatar (he can cast 3 psychic powers per turn, one of which can be doubled), which greatly extends the molten god's life-span. When they eventually reach your enemies lines, they can place a world of hurt on damn near anything.

Over-all, you have a good start. You are at that fun place where you can truly start deciding which direction your list is going to travel.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sweet jesus you get comments on this forum fast.
Alright, so I am still looking on towards some swooping hawks, faster then most infantry, and can deep strike every other turn (with their grenadeys :biggrin:)

I guess I should get a squad of fire dragons for my anti tanks, Im gonna drop the star engines, but keep the vectored, just in case (My father is an IG geek, focusing on basilisks. Flat out might be nice :p)

The avatar and wraithlord being slow... well all the players I go against and I have a house rule that monstrous creatures can move 12 inches, but cannot run. I think its fair as monstrous are big with longer legs, thus move faster right? ah well.

Im gonna try to get transports for my avengers, and my CC guys will be scorps, who I think are way better then banshees (better armor, stealth, infiltrate, and more strength hell yea.)

So, in order Im gonna get my speedy hawks, fire dragons, transports for avengers, then scorps. Im gonna keep my wraithlord, as his equipment is all long range, and hes gonna act more as a turret behind cover more then anything.

My army is mainly only going to be played against friends, but they are a wide variety. My father playing the hordes of Imperial guard, my sister playing giant demons great at cc, and my best friend playing Tau, focusing on his pretty hammerheads!
 

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im a big fan of the avatar and wraith lords, havnt used a fireprism yet only herd good things about em tho :), who do you play with? probly wanna set up some lists with the same point value as them. Dire avengers are one of my favorite units ever with their ablity to not die in assault and even kill any units, especaly with fortune on them. They can also shoot a unit appart. wave serpents are also very good transports even good fire bases with their twin linked weapon. I got a squad of swooping hawks havnt used them alot yet, the thing is they dont get alot of attacks in assualt nor do they have power weapons. But they do have 24 in range witch is a step above most eldar, and they get the 12 in range. Their weapons are S3 tho so they have problems wounding, a farseer dooming the unit can really increase their output. The exarchs sun rifle is fun with assault 6 pinning. If you want to go assault i would get some howling banshees and stricking scorpions. Howling banshees have power weapons, They are fleet of foot and have lower S so they have problems wounding so a farseer is their best freind. but they also have power weapons :) so no army saves totaly kills 3+ saves. But for 4+ saves you want to use the stricking scorpions they get more attacks have better saves no fleet. but they have a higher strength and wound alot more, no power weapons tho. they can also infiltrate near your enime. but the howling banshees need a transport.

hope that helps sorry for the wall of poorly formated text and spelling errors, i dont spell well and am new to posting.
 

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Sweet jesus you get comments on this forum fast.
Alright, so I am still looking on towards some swooping hawks, faster then most infantry, and can deep strike every other turn (with their grenadeys :biggrin:)
While I personally love the Swooping Hawk sculpt, and feel that that Aspect would be useful in certain areas, I have yet to encounter a situation where they were actually worth their appallingly high points cost. If you truly chose to use them, tailor the squad to suit its specific task.

If you want pie-plates, keep the squad small (5 Hawks w/ Exarch). Give them the Skyleap exarch power and no other gear. An Autarch in your army list is a must if you decide to try for Plate-spamming, as he gives you the bonus to reserve rolls.

If you wants to try and gain some use from the dubious haywire grenade (though none of your opponents play armies that include tanks that make HG's shine , i.e., Monoliths), make the squad a bit larger and give the Exarch Intercept. That way you have more grenades hitting regardless of how fast the tank moved, giving you a slightly increased chance of that elusive penetrating hit.

I guess I should get a squad of fire dragons for my anti tanks, Im gonna drop the star engines, but keep the vectored, just in case (My father is an IG geek, focusing on basilisks. Flat out might be nice :p)
Star Engines let you move a Grav-tank up to 36" a turn. Vectored engines are only really useful on a very infrequent basis. Star Engines pretty much guarantee that you can have all your nasty Aspect Warriors waving at your opponents army and ready to assault on Turn 2.

Fire Dragons are pure win. Many people will suggest not taking the Exarch. I always do, and I usually give him Tank Hunter and Crack shot. That way they hit at effective S9 with Melta weapons, making pretty much anything with an AV value molten slag. My set-up may be a bit over-kill, but is is a unit that totes a Melta-gun as their standard equipment. They are made of over-kill.

The avatar and wraithlord being slow... well all the players I go against and I have a house rule that monstrous creatures can move 12 inches, but cannot run. I think its fair as monstrous are big with longer legs, thus move faster right? ah well.
Well, that is....interesting. Generally, I would say 'Broken'. But if all of your opponents are fine with the ruling, then do what you will.

Im gonna try to get transports for my avengers, and my CC guys will be scorps, who I think are way better then banshees (better armor, stealth, infiltrate, and more strength hell yea.)
Better armor = yes. Higher strength = yes. Infiltrate (if given the Shadowstrike Exarch power) = yes. Stealth = NO. Scorpions only get the Stealth USR if they have their Phoenix Lord (Karandras) in their squad. So no bonus to cover unless you drop ~200pts for Karandras and somehow free up an HQ slot for him. Over-all, a decent choice against Horde style opponents, or anything with a crappy armor save.

I also wouldn't sell short the power of Banshee's against a Doomed target. Power weapons generally leave most opponents SOL. Also, their base S3 won't be too much of a hindrance against your frequent opponents, as they average T3 units (well, not the daemons...).

So, in order Im gonna get my speedy hawks, fire dragons, transports for avengers, then scorps. Im gonna keep my wraithlord, as his equipment is all long range, and hes gonna act more as a turret behind cover more then anything.

My army is mainly only going to be played against friends, but they are a wide variety. My father playing the hordes of Imperial guard, my sister playing giant demons great at cc, and my best friend playing Tau, focusing on his pretty hammerheads!
I would suggest changing that order from what you listed to: Transports, Fire Dragons, Scorps, then Hawks. But hey, it is your army. ;)
 

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I agree with Weirdboyz suggested order (definitely transports before Dragons), but go ahead and get your Hawks 1st if you're excited about them. You should be double excited to know that they can drop their grenade packs EVERY turn after the 1st, as opposed to every other turn. It isn't often the most effective, but you do go up against a lot of T 3. Might consider an Autarch at some point to help them do their little bouncing trick.

If you go Flat Out, the odds of being affected by an Immobilized result by any hit (measured as a S8 hit) are only around 4%. Not quite what I'd gamble that many points on. But if it makes you more comfortable, ok.

Monstrous Creatures that move 12"? Sounds more like the Gargantuan Creatures to me. But Hey! I like the idea, should be really fun. Just don't take that habit into a tournament.

Anytime you have any questions, just let us know. This is a fantastic thread and is almost always very quick with very constructive responses. (shameless plug!)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
well, the strategy I have been using has a lot of hit and run type of attacks. Say hitting hard with my avengers with bladestorm, while using guide and fortune on them with my farseer. meanwhile my guardians come in front to take the hits and the dire avengers run away to strike again. I am guessing swooping hawks would take this to the next level with their speedy speediness.

As for the 12 inch house rule, the wraithlord is what, 6 times as big as a guardian? even an avatar is 3 times the size? the wraiths legs are bigger then the guardians entire body! why should it be moving the same speed? is it crawling on all fours to try and get that best shot?
 

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well, the strategy I have been using has a lot of hit and run type of attacks. Say hitting hard with my avengers with bladestorm, while using guide and fortune on them with my farseer. meanwhile my guardians come in front to take the hits and the dire avengers run away to strike again. I am guessing swooping hawks would take this to the next level with their speedy speediness.

As for the 12 inch house rule, the wraithlord is what, 6 times as big as a guardian? even an avatar is 3 times the size? the wraiths legs are bigger then the guardians entire body! why should it be moving the same speed? is it crawling on all fours to try and get that best shot?
In the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium, there is no place for physics. Or scale, for that matter.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
hah, I guess your right. If it was to scale, infantry would be across the entire room shooting. Tanks downstairs twenty feet away...

Not to mention the basilisk somewhere down the street...
 
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