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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I wanted to know what people thought of the new ollanius pius fluff(him being a perpetual)
I personally like the change but I know opinions are mixed
 

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There's a glitch in the matrix it seems. I'm sure we had this discussion before.

Anyways.

Him being a perpetual is a mixed bag, on one hand it lessons he sacrifice due to the fact that he knew he would be coming back. However it also means he fully remembers getting flayed alive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
There's a glitch in the matrix it seems. I'm sure we had this discussion before.

Anyways.

Him being a perpetual is a mixed bag, on one hand it lessons he sacrifice due to the fact that he knew he would be coming back. However it also means he fully remembers getting flayed alive.
Not this discussion with me:)
I'm not sure if he will come back. In the new visions of heresy it says something like " horus flays him alive and reduces his skeleton to dust. The emperor sees this. The emperor has known this soldier for centuries and feels he should not have been ended this way" or something along those lines( will try to get exact quote) so I think maybe horus destroyed olls soul?
 

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There's a glitch in the matrix it seems. I'm sure we had this discussion before.
Maybe we did, maybe we didn't; chances are its a significantly older thread so lets bank on didn't.:p

Him being a perpetual is a mixed bag, on one hand it lessons he sacrifice due to the fact that he knew he would be coming back.
I don't know, the whole point of the sacrifice, to me, was always to show the Emperor that there would be no sabing or redeeming Horus. His favoured son was gone and there was only one thing he could do to stop all the madness from destroying every last thing the Emperor had strived for after allt his time.

I'm not sure if he will come back. In the new visions of heresy it says something like " horus flays him alive and reduces his skeleton to dust. The emperor sees this. The emperor has known this soldier for centuries and feels he should not have been ended this way" or something along those lines( will try to get exact quote) so I think maybe horus destroyed olls soul?
I remember reading something to that effect a while ago.

Horus had mortally wounded the Emperor and was standing over his mauled body, savouring the moment before he dealt the final blow. Before it could be delivered though, someone else fires a weapon at the warmasters back, causing no damage and barely even registering as anything more than a threat.

Regardless of this though, Horus turns to face the one who would try to stand before him in his moment of triumph. With but a look, Horus flays the individual molecule by molecule; the look of joy on his face at this action the final thing the Emperor needed to see, forcing him to come to terms that his favoured son is finally lost.


Whether or not Oll is able to come back feels irrelevent to me, since the point was to open the Emperor's eyes and that was done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Maybe we did, maybe we didn't; chances are its a significantly older thread so lets bank on didn't.:p


I don't know, the whole point of the sacrifice, to me, was always to show the Emperor that there would be no sabing or redeeming Horus. His favoured son was gone and there was only one thing he could do to stop all the madness from destroying every last thing the Emperor had strived for after allt his time.


I remember reading something to that effect a while ago.

Horus had mortally wounded the Emperor and was standing over his mauled body, savouring the moment before he dealt the final blow. Before it could be delivered though, someone else fires a weapon at the warmasters back, causing no damage and barely even registering as anything more than a threat.

Regardless of this though, Horus turns to face the one who would try to stand before him in his moment of triumph. With but a look, Horus flays the individual molecule by molecule; the look of joy on his face at this action the final thing the Emperor needed to see, forcing him to come to terms that his favoured son is finally lost.


Whether or not Oll is able to come back feels irrelevent to me, since the point was to open the Emperor's eyes and that was done.
I think oll and the emperor are actually old friends from way back. Oll charges at horus with a knife, gets obliterated, the emps sees the joy in horus and the rest is history
 

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Not this discussion with me:)
I'm not sure if he will come back. In the new visions of heresy it says something like " horus flays him alive and reduces his skeleton to dust. The emperor sees this. The emperor has known this soldier for centuries and feels he should not have been ended this way" or something along those lines( will try to get exact quote) so I think maybe horus destroyed olls soul?
True.

Anyways, It seems like as long as something is left they'll return, considering the fact that vulkan made it through nukes which should have disintegrated human that in itself may not be true.

It also seems like only specific weapons the emperor being one can kill one.
 

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True.

Anyways, It seems like as long as something is left they'll return, considering the fact that vulkan made it through nukes which should have disintegrated human that in itself may not be true.

It also seems like only specific weapons the emperor being one can kill one.
Horus charged as an avatar of the Chaos Gods could very well end an perpetual if we follow recent fluff that has come about, i.e following in Daddy's footsteps quite a bit on his way to Terra.

I like Oll. I have a feeling there will be something new added to this particular fluff near the end that gives it a bit less predictability for everyone waiting with baited breath.
 

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I've found the perpetual storyline to be a bit hit-and-miss. When it was introduced in Legion it was captivating - we had a mysterious individual who was unwillingly stuck in a cycle of death and rebirth and who personally knew the Emperor on some level.

Know No Fear built on that by introducing Oll as a perpetual and confirming that there were several more than just 1 or 2.

However, the other contributions (Unremembered Empire, Vulkan Lives etc) have just stretched the plot without adding to it, and have made the addition of perpetual characters predictable.

I do wonder where they intend to go with it. Are they simply just individuals who are functionally immortal or is there more to them? Where did they come from? What relationship do they have with the Emperor? Is he one of them? What was Oll trying to achieve on the Vengeful Spirit? What is the relationship they have with each other? How many are there? Very few of these questions have been answered thus far, and that is what I mean by the perpetual plot not being furthered by novels such as Vulkan Lives and Unremembered Empire.
 

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Oll has been around since the beginning of time it seems as a Pertubal. I guess the question now is if Horus killed him for the final time or not?

I was gonna quote stuff, but I haven't learned the skill of how to write spoilers yet. So I abstained as that would contain quite the lot of spoilers.
 

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I was gonna quote stuff, but I haven't learned the skill of how to write spoilers yet. So I abstained as that would contain quite the lot of spoilers.
Its the same method as using quote tags, but instead of the word quote at the start and finish you use spoiler. So:

 

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With but a look, Horus flays the individual molecule by molecule
Well, this might be the technique to eliminate a perpetual, since it seems this is what the Emperor then turns on Horus himself to ensure he's removed from existence. Or does the Big E add some extra mojo into the mix since his son is infused with Chaos and might be resurrected in the Warp?
 

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Its the same method as using quote tags, but instead of the word quote at the start and finish you use spoiler. So:

Thank you.
 

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I think oll and the emperor are actually old friends from way back.
Quite the opposite I think. Oll doesn't seem to like the Emperor at all, despite, or because of, hanging out with him for some considerable time.

Anyways, It seems like as long as something is left they'll return,
I guess the question now is if Horus killed him for the final time or not?
I'm not so sure. There appears to be differing types of perpetuals. Some will live forever so long as they are not killed, but when killed, stay dead. Others seem to keep coming back however many times they are killed. It appears that John Grammaticus can only come back now with the help of the Cabal.

I've found the perpetual storyline to be a bit hit-and-miss. When it was introduced in Legion it was captivating - we had a mysterious individual who was unwillingly stuck in a cycle of death and rebirth and who personally knew the Emperor on some level.

Know No Fear built on that by introducing Oll as a perpetual and confirming that there were several more than just 1 or 2.

However, the other contributions (Unremembered Empire, Vulkan Lives etc) have just stretched the plot without adding to it, and have made the addition of perpetual characters predictable.
I agree they seem to be stretching it a bit. When it was just Grammaticus and Oll, you could see they had history together, and with the Emperor. They were rare and it seemed they were going to play a small but significant part in the story. Now they seem to be popping up everywhere. They have been cheapened somewhat by just how common they have become.

I want to know how so many of them seemingly ended up working for the cabal after working for or alongside the Emperor. They might deserve a book all on their own, as they all seem to know each other, which is understandable. There's only so many millenia you can wander around a planet before you've met all the other immortals doing the same thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quite the opposite I think. Oll doesn't seem to like the Emperor at all, despite, or because of, hanging out with him for some considerable time.
I just thought that because in a story called unmarked featuring oll, there is a flashback scene where the emperor is talking to oll and calls him"old friend", tho that could be nothing. Also I visions of heresy, it says the emperor was so sad with the lone guards mans death because he had known this warrior for centuries.
 

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I'm not so sure. There appears to be differing types of perpetuals. Some will live forever so long as they are not killed, but when killed, stay dead. Others seem to keep coming back however many times they are killed. It appears that John Grammaticus can only come back now with the help of the Cabal.
I kept it open-ended for a reason as Olli now is a perpetual.
 

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Perpetuals behave, at least in my view, in much the same way as the eldar did at their prime. When they die, their souls eventually re-incarnate into a new form and they live again.

Perpetual souls in humans could simply be another evolutionary trait. We know that psykers didn't initially exist in humanity, but that the seeds of this trait was left in mankind's early ancestors before the Old Ones were wiped out. Humanity could simply be moving towards what the eldar were. Albeit in a much more erratic and unpredictable fashion.

If I had to guess, I'd venture that the main purpose of the perpetual sub-plot is simply to leave an open endedness to 40k's hypothetical/impending endgame scenario. Or, some kind of latent failsafe designed to destroy or control the warp horrors that were unleashed during the War in Heaven. It is doubtful the Old Ones could have forseen the extent the Chaos Gods would grow, so there's really no way of knowing for sure how it will play out.
 

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I just thought that because in a story called unmarked featuring oll, there is a flashback scene where the emperor is talking to oll and calls him"old friend", tho that could be nothing. Also I visions of heresy, it says the emperor was so sad with the lone guards mans death because he had known this warrior for centuries.
All of that portrays the Emperors attitude to Oll, not the other way around. I think at one point Oll actually states they never really got along at all. It appears that the perpetuals were not tricked by the glamour that he seemed to cast on others.
 
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