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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Kahn on Moondraken
command squad
Apothocary
champion
thunder hammer
power sword x2
storm shields x3
- 405

10 man scouts w/ camo cloaks 9x snipers and missile launcher
- 154

5 bikes w/ plasma x2
attack bike w/ heavy bolter
vet sgt w/ power sword
- 205

5 bikes w/flamer x2
attack bikes w/ heavy bolter
vet sgt w/ power sword
- 185

5 bikes w/ melta x2
attack bike w/ multi-melta
vet sgt w/ power sword
- 215

5 bikes w/ grave gun x2
attack bike w/ multi-melta
vet sgt w/ power sword
-215

3 land speeders w/ heavy bolters and typhoon missile launcher
- 225

storm talon w/ assault cannons and typhoon missile launcher
- 145

total- 1749


The idea is to hit hard and fast. If going first scout move from Kahn will be a big help getting to where I need to be. If going second scout move can help me make sure I have cover for the first round of fire surely to come in. The land speeders will target low to mid tank armor. tanking out transports or anything that may have the sky fire rule, hopefully in the first turn. grave gun and melta squads will be traveling together looking for elites or heavy supports while the plasma and flamers troop hunt. The snipers will be targeting any high priority target thats gets within their line of sight and hold down home objective. While Kahn and command pick up any pieces in assault with hit and run and a +1 to strength for hammer of wrath on top of Kahns d3 hammer of wrath hits.

any comments or advice is welcome and appreciated! thanks!
 

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I really love the white scars. This is pretty different from what I've seen from other WS lists. Most of them just run 4 bikes with two grav and an attack bike with MM. Maybe a combi-grav on the SGT. I'm not a huge fan of that build personally, but from what I understand it does well.

I'm just not sold on bikes with flamers. I've seen it done for "horde control" but I usually just make room in my list for grav and melta bike squads with MM attack bikes and bring a thunderfire cannon or two for anti-horde.

Did you know you had 3 landspeeders in the same squad and an open fast attack option? You're going to be firing 6 missiles and 3 heavy bolters at a single target every turn. Spread the love man. If you can kill a tank with two speeders, let the third one go play elsewhere. If you still need him I'm sure he won't be far away.

I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't like scouts in my bike army, but yours do look pretty sturdy.

All in all I'd say even without my two cents your original list looks really fun, very fluffy, and honestly not horrible on the competitive end. Have you played any games using this army? If so, what do you feel has been the weaker links and what has played strong consistently?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I haven't played with this list and I was thinking about splitting the speeders but also thinking of breaking up the attack bikes into a fast attack slot, so i just grouped them together for the simplicity I guess. At the shop I play at ad the friends I play against there is seriously every army on the board so I made this list for all comers in a little bbq tournament a friend is having. We will have Necrons, Orkz, Nids, more Marines, Imperial Guard. Not sure on knights someone may have went and bought some by the time we play. So I was trying to make an all comers list. Thanks for the comments!

Oh yeah I forgot. The problems I face are whenever I play a low number of bikes in a squad people like to shoot them up and it hurts. My command Squad is a beast in combat and survivability.
 

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If anyone brought Imperial Knights to one of our tournaments we'd all punch him in the genitals. But that's just my group. I actually took second place in a 2k tournament with White Scars with a very close loss to dark eldar in the final round. I ran 4 full sized squads of bikes. Two melta and two grav. I combat squadded against Nids so I could focus bolter shots against his hordes and focus grav and melta on his MCs. I also ran a bunch of typhoon speeders. Those did great at just about everything. I took zero flyers or flyer defense. With their speed I was able to outmaneuver them, but it really hurt when they first came in. Luckily nobody ran flyer spam. The melta and power fists on I put in my bike squads did great against ghost arks and Necron warriors fell to pieces in CC anyway. Grav guns did awesome against marines and terminators, allowing me to finish most marine squads in CC. I didn't play against orks, but a ton of bolter shots and frag missiles should handle both IG and Ork hordes if they pop up. Guard Mech could cause some issues. Melta and PFs again should do well. If orks are loading up in trukks then you'll really want to have some missiles on hand early to pop the transports and finish up the squads with bolters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Perhaps I will try it without the flamers and with more grav weapons. For this friendly tournament though I wan to try the flamers although they do require being up and close.
 

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I'd recommend a few test games to see who your allstars are. Try it against a marine army and a xenos army. Not that all xenos are the same, it will at least give you an idea of which units you may want to duplicate. Unless you're like me and live 2 hours from your warhammer playing buddies.
 

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I don't recommend splitting up your land speeders to give away first blood. VP's win games more than killing units, and a 2HP Open topped AV10/10/10 vehicle is about as weak as you can get.

I hate the idea of other people being able to dictate what others are allowed to bring. Banning Escalation, Stronghold Assault Etc and particular codexes is kind of pathetic. Essentially it boils down to 'too strong for my current army and I don't want to change my army' whichis nothing better than whinging why your army full of footslogging combat troops suck - the rules support integration.



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I don't recommend splitting up your land speeders to give away first blood. VP's win games more than killing units, and a 2HP Open topped AV10/10/10 vehicle is about as weak as you can get.
I've never been a huge fan of this argument, simply because if your opponent really wants First Blood he's probably going to get it unless you're bringing some weird Black Templars Land Raider Cavalry army or Draigowing - an Eldar, Tau, Guard, Dark Eldar or even Space Marine army worth it's salt is capable of killing 3 Land Speeders or 6 T5 Space Marines in a turn, so having the more fragile targets isn't really that huge an issue in my view.

I hate the idea of other people being able to dictate what others are allowed to bring. Banning Escalation, Stronghold Assault Etc and particular codexes is kind of pathetic. Essentially it boils down to 'too strong for my current army and I don't want to change my army' whichis nothing better than whinging why your army full of footslogging combat troops suck - the rules support integration.
I used to be all kinds of against this, but the more games I've played (and the more times I've tried bringing abusive lists, and found them to be boring as shit to play) I've come to agree with it. The only kind of ban I enforce in my games is not playing against people I know are dicks - Escalation's allowed, that's fine, but if you're consistently going to bring a Catacomb Command Barge, 2 units of 5 Warriors in Night Scythes and a Transcendent C'tan to 1000pt games, then feel free; you won't be playing against this gamer (I know this seems to contradict Vaz' point of 'too strong for my current army and I don't want to change my army', but there are two factors: first, I do not know which tools GK could realistically bring to take down a Transcendent C'tan; second, I don't have an infinite amount of money to spend on this hobby. If the counter to it was 'Well it's easy, you bring two Combined Arms Detachments and bring 6 Dreadknights and charge it with Force active', then I'm not willing to spend a heinous amount of money on four extra Dreadknights that I don't really want to use just to beat some asshat that I don't really want to be playing against in the first place to prove that I am the greatest warhamsé evar.
 

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That's fair. I don't really have the experience with fragile vehicles like Land Speeders, and you can read the forums and watch batreps until the cows come home but nothing beats actually putting models on the table and rolling some dice.

C'tan are fine in Apocalypse, where their insane mobility and their ability to kill a tonne of dudes or vehicles is offset by the size of the table and the number of models on the board and their weakness to Str D can be exploited; but in Escalation, they're all-but immune to most guns (even Lascannons have a tough time getting through it's layered defences) which isn't so great for the player on the receiving end.
 

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I guess you guys don't use many speeders. What I've learned, if you go first, you'll get the first blood by killing that rhino or chimera chassis. If you go second, hide it behind LOS blocking terrain. If they really want to waste a drop pod of sternguard or a dreadnought, or send that teleporting dreadknight after a single landspeeder in what is essentially going to end up as a unit for unit trade in the long run, be my guest. I've got a 4+ jink on that speeder. 3+ on nightfight. Sure you can beat the nightfight buff by shooting two units at it and a searchlight, but I'd never waste that kind of firepower trying to take out one flimsy little speeder. There's always the chance of getting seized and such, but sometimes dems the breaks.

My group comes up with crazy restrictions for all of our tournaments. We all agree that if you can win games with a restricted list (restrictions change every tournament) then you're a better player and get your name on the trophy for a month. If you come in last, you get the Shambrero, or hat of shame and must wear it during the next tournament. I think we've had superheavies once. I killed the c'tan with las/plas razors. It def took a minute. But we run crazy things like only one of any of the options outside of troops, no flyers, no fast attacks, all elites, no formations, two formations, and other crazy nonsense a many different point levels. It's awesome fun because it keeps us thinking.
 
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