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Autarch of Heresy
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Rage's Opening thoughts and new impressions for the new Eldar Codex

Hello

This is your friendly neighborhood Ragewind, you may remember me from such
as "Of course you can Intercept while in CC" and "No you have to target the rider, not the bike". Today I am here to talk about what’s fresh on everyone's mind, the new Craftworld Eldar Codex. While I have been on a month long break from 40k spending my every waking hour playing Neverwinter, I have also been paying close attention to the rumors and thinking about how they impact the game. While this is just a Primer you can except (after some play testing) a fully fleshed out Guide to the Eldar.
Please feel free to post your thoughts on what you see here, everything constructive will be added to my up-comming guide so everyone will know what to watch out for when playing for/against the new Eldar.


Opening thoughts on the new Codex -

After leafing through the book it seems GW has brought the Eldar more in line with other armies (namely the marines), this is nice in terms of general learning curves and skill levels at the cost of our 'Cultural identity" now. Our psykers are no more powerful than others (and in some cases more vulnerable) and a lot of our little tricks are gone replaced by brute force tactics. It's ...slightly depressing (IMO) but for the most part the book is a positive thing.

Army wide Special Rules -

Battle Focus -

Opening Thoughts - Yes, this is nice. everyone gets a move/shoot/move, or a move/move/shoot. This is a inspired rule. Although TBH a potential 6 inch move won't help you if you are close or out in the open. Be sure to Hug LOS blocking terrain

Closing Thoughts - I love it

Fleet -

Opening Thoughts - Not technically a "army wide rule" but at the same time it is. Long story short everything has fleet now, see above for usefulness.

Closing Thoughts - What's not to like?

Ancient Doom -

Opening Thoughts - Fluffy

Closing Thoughts - Can be bad if you get in CC with Slaanesh a lot.

Eldar Units :-

Wraithknight -

Initial thoughts - It has a Land Raider price tag and can kill a Landraider, so for a 1 to 1 ratio it checks out. As for its other capabilities its kinda meh. For a hefty price tag you can replace both of its Str 10 weapons for a multi blast Str 6 weapon. This would be a fantastic option if you didn't trade BOTH of its weapons for ONE(eg. if you could take two suncannons it would be awesome). You do get a invul save out of it but its poor at a 5+, it's easier to get a better cover save for it via cover, you can also trade both of its cannons once again for a single CC weapon and that invul again. Not really worth it at all, it gets no real benefit from the CC weapon and bringing it closer to melta and other low AP weapons isn't smart even with the 5+ invul.
I do enjoy its options of "secondary weapons", although for its total price some War Walkers would be better.

Closing thoughts - Its too soon to tell if this is going to be a strong contender vs other heavy support options, especially considering the boost many of them have enjoyed. The only two "real" options are the base double heavy cannons for ranged AT (looking at you bastions) and a Suncannon with a Scatter Laser for Twin Linking. The price is high but for the high stats its understandable. Keep it away from CC, otherwise the enemy can lock it down with a group of guardsman. It also works well with either a Bastion, Fortress or a Landing Pad, as all of them ofer significant ranged protection and can even block LOS in the case of the buildings.


Warp Spiders -

Initial thoughts - Cheaper and Better and can potentially move up to 36 inches in a single turn, combine with the Tau warlord trait for a 3d6 secondary move and Bam! LINEBREAKER. the Monofilament rules, in terms of strength, only really matters for vehicles, "rapid fire" @ Str 7 is wondrous for bringing down vehicles (and most MC's). As for all other units your already wounding on a 2+ so you won't see a difference, however their new "rending" is fantastic and can threaten anything. Works very well with doom obviously.

Closing thoughts - if you already use Warp Spiders you are going to be very very happy, if you don't you probably should use them as they bring a lot of utility and mobility. For their price it's not bad at all.

Wraith guard - Cheaper and better, what's not to like? Now that you can make them troops and still only take a small squad they make excellent back field objective holders, even if the enemy drops in a Dread or a MC they can handle it. While jetbikes are still better in nearly every way for your objective capturing needs they are imposing and can make a nice addition to your army.

Closing Thoughts - harder to make a super squad with the change to how powers work, especially since they cannot grab a Warlock anymore, otherwise they function basically the same.

Wraith Blades - Cheaper Wraithguard that focus on CC. Lots of AP 3 attacks or a handful of AP 2 attacks, even with Fortune and such, I don't see them being particularly useful. I mean if you want Counter charge Harlies do the job better and are cheaper, even banshees and Scorps beat them. They are reliable access to Str 6 and 7 though... YMMY

Closing Thoughts - You know how you see Lychguard all the time for the Necrons>? Exactly

Warlocks -

Initial thoughts -Hmm, Flying terminators with psychic protection. Seriously though, the random powers suck ass. While LD8 may been off putting to start your overage roll on two dice is 7, you most likely won't fail your powers too much, however throw in some psy defense like Shadow of the Warp or a Rune Staff and they will most likely never get a power off. All in all I think they have a lot more potential but man...they do not have a large margin of error. They have no way to protect themselves from Perils and even on bikes they fall short.

Closing Thoughts - Man if only they didn't have to cast their powers, and the singing spear upgrade is a hefty price tag when you stat to kit out the unit, its possible they have some utility with the main BRB powers, but basically you have to get super lucky to get any useful power. Also wish you could put two warlocks in the same squad ala the Royal Court

Farseers -

Initial thoughts - Whhhyyyyyyyyyy

Closing thoughts - no LD re-roll, no 3d6 for powers, no psy defense, ghost helms brought low. Even with all the gifts we have been given this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Most powerful Psykers in the Galaxy? Oh you meant Chaos. While in general we are now like everyone else, it is very off putting. Fortune is no longer promised, which is weird (random powers are bad), and the new "Super sayian" power is terrible. Other than these terribly off putting things they do basically what they did before, buff other units and with a potential ML 4 they do it well(not to mention Deny the Witch for a single unit). With their high ML they might be better off rolling on the BRB powers for things like Hallucination, it IS nice that Guide/Fortune is 24 inches now, it allows them to stay behind and buff instead of being on the front lines.

Fire Dragons -

Initial Thoughts - More expensive, but more useful. The point increase is negligible once you factor in the reductions across the board. However insist on taking units like Wraithknights x3, then you will find yourself short on points. It's also nice they probably won't die from vehicle explosions anymore.

Closing Thoughts - The Exarch powers are Meh, fast shot is cool and all but I miss crack shot. They do turn a Krackstorm missile launcher into a barrage 2 though, which is neat. Combine with a Shas'O with a Sensor chip for the lulz.

Guardian Defenders -

Initial Thoughts - Y U No Cost Less! The increase in points for the stats is understandable. I would've preferred it to be a option, like +4 points for a Black Guardian ;/ I also notice that, while optional, the Support Platforms have a stat value now, I would've preferred they stay as a token, since now a bad save makes a 20+ point gun go poof.

Closing thoughts - A Warlock with conceal can make them have a 2+ cover save, which is neat. Watch out for marker lights.

Storm Guardians -

Initial thoughts - love the fact they can be WS 5 and Int 6 with the right power, otherwise fairly the same as before. Power weapons are really expensive for no reason, they also have Plasma Grenades for free now.

Closing Thoughts - Str 3 still kills them

"Windrider jetbikes" -

Initial Thoughts - Oh man, I am SO happy right now. If you couldn't tell I thought highly of jetbikes with the prior codex, they are not only cheaper but with the changes to Shuriken Weapons and their increase in stats I am incredibly happy. Combine with Conceal for a 2+ cover save just because, or a 2+ armor save with the right power. I honestly don't see why you would get any other troop choice.

Closing thoughts - They have battle focus...but cannot run?

Dire Avengers -

Initial thoughts - Really worth taking now, simply because of battle focus. Honestly though because Guardians also have it and are cheaper, no REAL reason to take them. The 5+ invul they get is poor compared to the 2+ cover the jetbikes can get and of course their exarch powers are meh.

Closing Thoughts - They DO get you a serpent which may or may not be worth taking depending on your setup.

Wave Serpent -

Initial Thoughts - More expensive............and the shield changed. I had a knee jerk reaction in seeing the energy field change, but at the same time, after thinking about it. I think its better. They will still die a terribly overcosted death in CC when they run up to drop their cargo off ( /sigh), but in terms of shooting they have amazing resiliency. Their new shield AND their amazingly cheap weapon options makes them one of the best gun tanks around,like a Pred wishes it had the energy shield instead of a front AV 13.

Closing thoughts - Don't use it to deliver troops or it will die like a B***h. Why is the "projected" field a 60' range? WHY!? It should also be noted the new shield works for a Death or Glory attack. Which basically provides complete immunity to the Death or Glory assuming you have at least two Hull points left. Hmmmm

Vypers -

Opening Thoughts - Better BS and MUCH cheaper weapon options, BS 4 really makes them a good option.

Closing Thoughts - Will still die to a stiff breeze and competes with Warp Spiders and Crimson Hunters, although strictly speaking, not bad. Worth taking if you have some spare points.

Swooping Hawks -

Initial Thoughts - Cheaper and...Better? I like the change for the grenade pack and at the same time miss the infinite range, and NO SCATTER!

Closing thoughts - Still do what they did before, and skyleap got slightly nerfed. Don't get stuck in CC.

Wraithlords -

Initial Thoughts - yet again another price increase, other armies must be really be jealous of our T8. Their Str also got nerfed, which i suppose is negligible since they have smash and can get a glaive. If you didn't notice they can now have up to 4 weapons. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you should. As always trade out for the Flamers, on average you will be finding yourself being 30 points more than any previous setup. if you are taking 1-2 you don't really notice due to the overall price decrease, but once you start spamming them it can get bad.

Closing Thoughts - no longer unique with their BS 4, no wraithsight is nice though and 3 attacks base makes me feel better.

Crimson Hunter -

Initial Thoughts - Vector Dancer

Closing Thoughts - For its fragility I would prefer a lower price point, but watch out its price can get kinda high, but with the armaments it brings I am not complaining, feels like a MBT, make sure you silence any enemy skyfire shots as it will quickly bring it down. Otherwise I am happy

Prince Yirel -

Initial thoughts -Is basically the same as he was before, except now he cannot handle 2+. Love the price decrease too.

Closing Thoughts - I miss his Ignoring Armor Saves and las-cannon arm. Don't roll a 6 for a save. Marines still need to stay away from him or get eaten.

Striking Scorpions -

Initial Thoughts - The new Striking Scorpions is like a "Folex" watch. Sure you can still tell time but it's not the Rolex you were expecting.

Closing Thoughts - We got everything we ever wanted on the Scorps...except for the Str 3 Mandiblasters...ohgodwhy.jpeg

Shining Spears -

Initial Thoughts - Cheaper and Better

Closing Thoughts - mostly like they were before, but better overall and now have AP 2, although outflank is weird on them.

Support Weapon platforms -

Initial thoughts - not a fan of the new name, Shadow Weavers are still cheap and even more effective than they used to be, Vibro Cannons are much improved IMO although they play differently now (they will still eat vehicle parking lots), and D-Cannons are Str 10. While distort weaponry has changed in general I think having a actual STR value is nice, makes missing the "improved" haywire effect not as bad.

Closing Thoughts - yup they are all still good, and each have their own merits now, too bad D-Cannons are slightly more expensive

Night Spinners -

Initial thoughts - Str 7 barrage, Torrent!

Closing Thoughts - Reduced range, but shouldn't matter much due to the speed of the tank, has "rending". It's basically a Warp Hunter now.

Falcons -

Initial thoughts - BS 4!

Closing Thoughts - Cheaper overall, might be worth taking again since Prisms can no longer link shots. With the new Holo-Fields i can see this being fielded more and more often.

Fire Prisms -

Initial Thoughts - can no longer link beams, not that it is needed anymore, costs more

Closing thoughts - I like the changes, the increase itself is not list breaking and it has a "more useful" firing mode now.

Harlies -

Initial Thoughts - I feel like GW missed a good opportunity to change this unit in the right direction

Closing Thoughts - Veil of Tears is frustrating again, Flip belts are SLIGHTLY different now. They still are the best CC options we have. Does VoT's work for Overwatch now?

Eldrad Uthran -

Opening Thoughts - I miss the second power of the same type, otherwise he is ALL good.

Closing thoughts - this redeploy got nerfed..or clarified? Slightly Cheaper now and still T4.

Illic Nightspear -

Opening Thoughts - boy he has a lot of special rules and a nice price point.

Closing Thoughts - He's okay for his price, although unless you specifically want Pathfinders a Autarch or a Farseer will be better. I knew he was going to be a new character after reading through the Necron Codex. Also free Shrouding to any unit.

Asurmen -

Opening Thoughts - Wow I feel embarrassed for always making fun of him, it's like the nerdy kid in school grew up and now owns a fortune 500 company.

Closing Thoughts - he's still really expensive and limited in what he can do, but he is infinity much more useful that before. Keep Multi-Wound models away from him, or he will go NOM NOM NOM.

Jain Zair -

Opening Thoughts - Yisss AP 2

Closing Thoughts - Slightly more expensive but totally worth it, she is a excellent CC beast now.

Karandras -

Opening Thoughts - MUCH more expensive, like almost a land raider now

Closing Thoughts - Now that his fist is at his INT of 7, I can see why, COMPLETLY worth it if you have the points. Kahandra's and a tricked out Mantle Autarch will wreck absolute havoc in the enemy deployment zone.

Fuegan -

Opening Thoughts - More expensive but also, technically, more useful. His new special rule won't save him when he gets hit with 3+ AP 2 hits.

Closing Thoughts -I wish he could still smash, but now he shoots twice with his Fusion Pike. Completely worth it if you have the points.

Baharroth -

Opening Thoughts - Much improved still Str 4 in CC

Closing Thoughts - Same as before but better and cheaper. Its tough to say if he will be useful, YMMV.

Mr. Ra -

Opening Thoughts - Battle Focus makes him so funny

Closing Thoughts - No more Crack Shot and still AP 3, watch out though, he will still kick your ass.

The Avatar of Khaine -

Opening Thoughts - So he costs the same as Mr. Ra now

Closing Thoughts - MUCH improved, still not sure if I would take him over a IC, but definitely worth it now if you want too.

Autarch -

Opening Thoughts - Same as before, basically. All his options are cheaper and he can do some really neat things (wtf can take TWO Fusion guns, he can't even shoot that many)

Closing Thoughts - Mandi Blasters got nerfed and cost more for him. SO much for my Hunter Killer Autarch setup. You can kinda tell GW was tired of people giving him Mandi-Blasters and a Laser Lance.

Spirit Seer -

Opening Thoughts - Neat idea two rolls on the Runes of Battle chart if you really want to, and a IC to go where you need him

Closing Thoughts - Basically only take him if you want a particular squad to have a power he rolled or you want Wraithguard as troops. Also the only way to give a Wraith Guard unit Warlock powers now.

Rangers -

Opening Thoughts - MUCH cheaper, but they lost their special AP 1 shots.

Closing Thoughts - worth taking at least a single squad now. Also i miss their AP 1 shot, made them unique.

Howling Banshees -

Opening Thoughts - Poor Banshees, someone forgot they existed

Closing Thoughts - If you want to give them grenades you need a Archon/Succubus bring along a Phantasm Grenade Launcher.

Hemlock Wraithfighter -

Opening Thoughts - It's a neat concept, but WAY to expensive. It can only kill infantry (yes I know distort blah blah)

Closing Thoughts - I don't see it fitting in to the average list, but for a themed one its pretty neat. I just wish it cost less as it looks pretty cool.

Dark Reapers -

Opening Thoughts - SnP and ignores Jink AND can get Krak on everything...lol

Closing Thoughts - Cheaper and "better" to boot. They still have the same problems/advantages as before, I miss Crack Shot.

War Walkers -

Opening Thoughts - The cannons are default by now hence the price increase, for the same cost of 2 SL WW from the last codex we can get any weapon now. They also have a Invul now (really shouldn't matter)

Closing Thoughts - Wow EML's with Flakk get expensive fast.

Thoughts on current Psychic Powers :-

Runes of Battle -- (Warlocks/Spirit Seers pick these)

Conceal/Reveal -

Opening Thoughts - it's the basic power so I hope you love it

Closing Thoughts - Its basically awesome, free Shrouded for any squad AND you can remove Stealth/Shroud from a enemy unit.

Destructor/Renewer -

Opening Thoughts - Destructor got better, AND Renewer gives you some seriously OP options. The power targets any "friendly" unit so things like Wraithknights, Riptides, and any IC from Tau/DE are basically unstoppable if you can keep that power going.

Closing Thoughts - Imagine 5 guys with that spell, LOL. The Avatar can take on a army now.

Embolden/Horrify -

Opening Thoughts - Fearless is nice, but I seriously miss the re-roll for LD tests. Horrify can have a nice 1-2 punch combo with certain units, -3 to LD can be game breaking.

Closing Thoughts - Pretty straightforward powers, you will be using Horrify more often.

Enhance/Drain -

Opening Thoughts - Enhance did it what it did before, except now you can put it anywhere you can stick a Spirit Seer, Drain is interesting, the debuff it gives enemy units isn't all that much but it can turn a 3+ into a 4+.

Closing Thoughts - Kind of meh, other powers are more useful.

Protect/Jinx -

Opening Thoughts - Omg omg omg this has a LOT of useful applications. +1 to armor saves? So my seer council are now Flying Terminators? Jinx also has the ability to REALLY piss someone off, -1 to armor saves? Yea, Marines with a 4+, they are going to HATE that.

Closing Thoughts - I'll take 10!

Quicken/Restrain -

Opening Thoughts -Blessing is kind of meh +3 run speed

Closing Thoughts - Malediction can be tactically useful, no running for a enemy unit can keep them off a objective.

Empower/Enervate -

Opening Thoughts -+1 Str for Empower...Meh can be useful, especially when combines with the Dark Eldar.

Closing Thoughts - 1 Str has some tactical advantages, but won't be used much.

Runes of Fate -- (Farseers pick these)

Guide -

Opening Thoughts - Same as before, except now is a 24 inch range, can also affect non-Eldar units.

Closing Thoughts - It's the default power, but since everyone is BS 4 or better now, its usefulness has gone down.

Executioner -

Opening Thoughts - So...if you are lucky you can kill three models..also doesn't have a AP value.

Closing Thoughts - Who made this power? It's terrible

Doom -

Opening Thoughts - AH good old Doom, and it can now affect vehicles for re-rolls for Pen!

Closing Thoughts - Its Better! Take it! (works on flyers)

Eldritch Storm -

Opening Thoughts - is actually worth using now, however what made it "it", is gone. it no longer spins

Closing Thoughts - Its good , but not 2 warp charges good :/

Death Mission -

Opening Thoughts - Ewww

Closing Thoughts - This is a terrible power, please don't take it.

Fortune -

Opening Thoughts - Yup that's worth 2 warp charges

Closing Thoughts - It now lets you re-roll Deny the Witch, AND it works on ANY friendly Unit! Go Go Dark Eldrad Grotesque super unit.

Mind War -

Opening Thoughts - No Mr Kelly. that is not worth two Warp Charges

Closing Thoughts - Technically better and ignores cover saves. Don't roll low or you gimp your Farseer.

Remnants of Glory - (We now have a "special wargear section" similar to the Chaos Gifts, Farssers/Spirit Seers/Autarchs can take them)

Shard of Anaris - Ok so this is priced fairly and gives the model some really nice abilities. Since it has Flash Bane AND instadeath it can really mess up enemy MC's. No AP but that's what rending is for.

Closing Thoughts - Seems like it can get the bearer killed by going into a fight he normally wouldn't go in. I guess Combined with Death Mission and Mantle of the Laughing God you can make a nice Super Farseer...maybe.

Fire Saber -

Opening Thoughts - This gives some really nice abilities and can be dangerous on a Autarch

Closing Thoughts - Costs a LOT

The Spirit Stone of Anath'Lan -

Opening Thoughts - Bringing down the cost of a power by 1 warp charge is very nice. most of the time it won't do much but if you have 2 powers with 2 warp charges this will let you cast both. It also works EACH time so I can see it being brought a lot, however you can only ever take one of these.

Closing Thoughts - The downside of no invul saves is negligible,

Uldanoeth Long Rifle -

Opening Thoughts - wow 120' range

Closing Thoughts - a AP 3 sniper

Mantle of the Laughing God -

Opening Thoughts - This has some potential for a real backfield terror, losing IC isn't even a problem in that situation.

Closing Thoughts - Lol you can give it to Autarch and put him on a bike. 2+ Cover saves all the time with re-rolls. The model loses the IC status but that doesn't prevent another IC form joining him.

Faolchu's WIng -

Opening Thoughts - Ehhhh a 48' run move? kind of useful

Closing Thoughts - Its high cost takes away my enthusiasm

The Phoenix Gem -

Opening Thoughts - Ooooo a Free Resurrection for a IC.

Closing Thoughts - And its cheaply priced too!

Thoughts on Vehicle Equipment :-

Ghost Walk mantle -

Opening Thoughts - Okay, Move through cover for our skimmers...so what you really mean is Move Through Cover for our War Walkers.

Closing Thoughts - Since every member in a squad has to take it, it gets expensive fast. War Walkers have the potential to cost nearly 600 points for one unit of three if you give them all the upgrades /shudder.

Spirit Stones -

Opening Thoughts - Yea I saw that coming

Closing Thoughts - So it works like Living Metal Now, I guess

Holo-Fields -

Opening Thoughts - So Disruption pods for the Eldar

Closing Thoughts - priced right, take it if you want your tank to live, kind of miss the old one though, made us unique.

Star Engines -

Opening Thoughts - A extra 6' move is nice

Closing Thoughts - Not for the points cost

Vectored Engines -

Opening Thoughts -.........................................really?

Closing Thoughts - Did the Eldar ever have problems with positioning with all of our Fast Skimmer and turreted Weapons??

Crystal Targeting Matrix -

Opening Thoughts - I got all giddy when i saw we got this back, the ability it grants is nice even for a one time use.

Closing Thoughts - Then I saw the points cost and nearly had a heart attack..../cry

Thoughts on current Fortifications :-

Fortress - Still useful for a variety of units, Wraithknights love it especially. A good place drop units out of LOS from reserve so the Tau don't eat you alive with Interceptor. Basic Rangers really like the 2+ cover save from the battlements

Bastion - Still useful, a good way to bring LOS blocking terrain for cheap, nice place to hide a Weapons Platform

Landing Pad - Wraithknights love this, although most of the other units that can sit back and shoot have access to good cover saves already. Good place to park some tanks

Aegis Defense Line - With cheap accurate ranged options you won't need this as much, combine the COMM relay with a Autarch to some good Reserve shenanigans. Of course Dark Reapers manning a Cannon or Quad Gun are dangerous to all flyers now.

Warlord Traits -

Ambush of Blades -

Opening Thoughts - Its KIND OF useful, but for a one use only ability its terrible.
Closing Thoughts - Roll on the BRB traits

An Eye on Distant Events -
Opening Thoughts - Tactically useful
Closing Thoughts - one use only makes me cry

Falcon's Swiftness -
Opening Thoughts - This is terrible, +1 Run move?
Closing Thoughts - Roll in the BRB

Fate's Messenger -
Opening Thoughts - This is useful, especially for a phoenix Lord.
Closing Thoughts - Rendered moot if you have Fortune.

Mark of the Incomparable Hunter -
Opening Thoughts - Split Fire is neat
Closing Thoughts - Not for a Warlord Trait

Seer of the Shifting Vector -
Opening Thoughts - Eldar doesn't really deepstrike that often so having a free "beacon" is kinda 50/50.
Closing Thoughts - Tau Interceptor haunt my dreams
 
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Thanks for this; you are actually an Eldar, aren’t you…lol

I read most everything in your post, but then stopped because I wanted a few surprises next week lol

It seems to me that you think the new book if better than the old, and that the Eldar will be better now which is awesome!

Even some of the bad you had to say was dealt mostly with some of the new Units not living up to the hype, but still there are options we didn’t have before right!
I know you think the Warlord traits might not be that good, but I think they will prove to be better than your first impressions. Hey, even the +1 to the run move, I’m sure we all had that game where the 1” extra would have gotten us that objective… hell it happened in a recent game 3.5” from the objective after my run lol… because so far I had nothing even slight useful from the BRB (except one time I got the one that gave you and extra vp for killing a charter in a challenge lol)

As for the Physic Powers… I knew that random generation was going to suck and make it harder to base you strategy around your PP as before (guide/doom/fortune). Now we will just have to think on our feet a little more! Either way, soon all armies will be in this same boat, GW didn’t bring this “new” aspect into the game and make a bunch of new products to support it (PP Cards, etc..) just to have us Elder players basically auto stopping it all.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for this; you are actually an the Eldar, aren’t you…lol

I read most everything in your post, but then stopped because I wanted a few surprises next week lol

It seems to me that you think the new book if better than the old, and that the Eldar will be better now which is awesome!

Even some of the bad you had to say was dealt mostly with some of the new Units not living up to the hype, but still there are options we didn’t have before right!
I know you think the Warlord traits might not be that good, but I think they will prove to be better than your first impressions. Hey, even the +1 to the run move, I’m sure we all had that game where the 1” extra would have gotten us that objective… hell it happened in a recent game 3.5” from the objective after my run lol… because so far I had nothing even slight useful from the BRB (except one time I got the one that gave you and extra vp for killing a charter in a challenge lol)

As for the Physic Powers… I knew that random generation was going to suck and make it harder to base you strategy around your PP as before (guide/doom/fortune). Now we will just have to think on our feet a little more! Either way, soon all armies will be in this same boat, GW didn’t bring this “new” aspect into the game and make a bunch of new products to support it (PP Cards, etc..) just to have us Elder players basically auto stopping it all.
You bring up some excellent and insightful points, at the end of the day I am very giddy over everything. I look forward to my future games. +Rep
 

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I know you think the Warlord traits might not be that good, but I think they will prove to be better than your first impressions. Hey, even the +1 to the run move, I’m sure we all had that game where the 1” extra would have gotten us that objective… hell it happened in a recent game 3.5” from the objective after my run lol… because so far I had nothing even slight useful from the BRB (except one time I got the one that gave you and extra vp for killing a charter in a challenge lol)
Yeah I've seen usefulish looking traits in the BRB but rarely generate them but to me most of the Codex's haven't been terribly game breaking. Between DA and Chaos anyway I only really hope for one or two traits from either book. Only problem I have with them is that 1 inch is silly, so silly I might forget I rolled it and then actually find a use for it.

There are a few things that have made me sad, but most of it as Ragewind points out is because some of us only make a use a couple configurations for everything. Not entirely sure all of it's worth the kick in the teeth but I find considering options something I didn't do as much so maybe that's a good thing.
 

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A few minor thoughts:
Mind War is absolutely worth 2 charges, but you have to pick the right target. Especially if comboed with Horrify, it can kill or cripple even the toughest MC. BS 1 Riptides are not happy things.
Falcon's Swiftness is basically there for Jain Zar, since it stacks with Acrobatic to give her and her Banshees +4" Run movement. Likewise Incomparable Hunter makes Maugan Ra more flexible, but can be very useful on a shooty Autarch.
Ghostwalk- Move Through Cover lets you ignore Dangerous Terrain, so Skimmers can take it and safely park in a forest or ruin. Potentially very handy.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
A few minor thoughts:
Mind War is absolutely worth 2 charges, but you have to pick the right target. Especially if comboed with Horrify, it can kill or cripple even the toughest MC. BS 1 Riptides are not happy things.
Falcon's Swiftness is basically there for Jain Zar, since it stacks with Acrobatic to give her and her Banshees +4" Run movement. Likewise Incomparable Hunter makes Maugan Ra more flexible, but can be very useful on a shooty Autarch.
Ghostwalk- Move Through Cover lets you ignore Dangerous Terrain, so Skimmers can take it and safely park in a forest or ruin. Potentially very handy.
Yes I noticed the run for Jain but i was thinking more from other HQ's perspective.

As for mind war I would disagree, simply because of the BrB power of Psychic Shriek, its 1 warp charge and can do up to 8 wounds to a LD 10 model (assuming you didn't lower the LD), whereas Mind War can do a max of 5 if you roll a 6 and they roll a 1.
There is also a psychological aspect to rolling dice and dealing 8 wounds as opposed to letting your opponent try and stop you.
Not to mention you can always grab Psy Shriek with no randomness involved.
 

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Yes I noticed the run for Jain but i was thinking more from other HQ's perspective.

As for mind war I would disagree, simply because of the BrB power of Psychic Shriek, its 1 warp charge and can do up to 8 wounds to a LD 10 model (assuming you didn't lower the LD), whereas Mind War can do a max of 5 if you roll a 6 and they roll a 1.
There is also a psychological aspect to rolling dice and dealing 8 wounds as opposed to letting your opponent try and stop you.
Not to mention you can always grab Psy Shriek with no randomness involved.
The comparison with Shriek actually shows why Mind War is a 2 Charge power quite nicely. Mind War has twice the range of Shriek and doubles as a debuff as well. As a Focused power, it can snipe with a good roll (2 tries, one on the LD test and one on the 'to hit' roll) and ignores LD boosts from leaders because it goes on the target model.
Of course, it's not as good for hitting units, but since you've got at least Mastery 3 and you can also have Telepathy, why not take both :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The comparison with Shriek actually shows why Mind War is a 2 Charge power quite nicely. Mind War has twice the range of Shriek and doubles as a debuff as well. As a Focused power, it can snipe with a good roll (2 tries, one on the LD test and one on the 'to hit' roll) and ignores LD boosts from leaders because it goes on the target model.
Of course, it's not as good for hitting units, but since you've got at least Mastery 3 and you can also have Telepathy, why not take both :)
That is a absolutely diabolical idea! Working in tandem really makes for a powerhouse combo. +rep
:goodpost:

I have a question: Do DA still have the ability to take an extra shot (Old Bladestorm), if not has it been replaced with a new ability?
They do not :ireful2:

Also I just noticed your from St. John's Newfoundland Canada, I was actually there not even 5 months ago. Very nice weather and friendly people.
 

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Well I got to say I was surprised the wraith knight wasn't some overpowered monster. Still to rail gun style weapons is nothing to sneeze at.
 

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T


They do not :ireful2:

Also I just noticed your from St. John's Newfoundland Canada, I was actually there not even 5 months ago. Very nice weather and friendly people.
It's to bad they lost that power that was a fun/useful/fluffy rule.

Good o'l St. John's,... we recently moved from there however, now we are in Happy Valley Goose Bay Labrador... much higher north in the province, work brought us here.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It's to bad they lost that power that was a fun/useful/fluffy rule.

Good o'l St. John's,... we recently moved from there however, now we are in Happy Valley Goose Bay Labrador... much higher north in the province, work brought us here.
In terms of shooting marines the "new" bladestorm will kill double the marines, of course it loses power on the large blobs, but for most purposes its fine.
 

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Disappointingly I don't think the Wraithknight is playable at all. For the cost of a Land Raider you're getting a 3+ sv MC that's impossibly to hide and only throws out 2 S10 shots per turn. The Ghostglaive is a waste of a weapon and Twin linking the Suncannon takes you up to 300pts - and you still die to two volleys of Krak Missiles because you don't have Battle Focus to avoid retaliatory firepower. Compared to the Riptide it's simply worse in every way and disappointingly vanilla in it's options and flavour. It needed either a 2+, a 3++, or some kind of cool special rule to keep it alive. Decent guns would also have helped. As it is, for 30pts less, you can put out 24 S6 shots (half of them twin linked) on Walkers that can effectively JSJ behind buildings, with a built in 5++ just in case they need it.

You don't seem to rate the Crimson Hunter much, but I predict it'll be almost the only thing you see in tournament lists FA slots because our book has no viable Skyfire. None. Not a single unit. That means our only answer to Flyers are our own Flyers, and 4 S8 AP2 Vector Dancer shots is a pretty damn good answer, even at the 160pt mark. Of course if your local group doesn't play with flier heavy armies then you can utilize the much improved Spiders instead.

I also think you're underselling Serpents - the only fast skimmer transport in the game that averages 11 shots at S6/7 for 130pts. As a firepower unit that's more cost effective than most of our heavy support section.

The rest of your post I agree with, for the most part. I too am slightly disappointed in the lack of unique options, and have a sinking feeling that the internal balance of this book is just as bad as the last one, just with different units.
 

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Disappointingly I don't think the Wraithknight is playable at all. For the cost of a Land Raider you're getting a 3+ sv MC that's impossibly to hide and only throws out 2 S10 shots per turn. The Ghostglaive is a waste of a weapon and Twin linking the Suncannon takes you up to 300pts - and you still die to two volleys of Krak Missiles because you don't have Battle Focus to avoid retaliatory firepower. Compared to the Riptide it's simply worse in every way and disappointingly vanilla in it's options and flavour. It needed either a 2+, a 3++, or some kind of cool special rule to keep it alive. Decent guns would also have helped. As it is, for 30pts less, you can put out 24 S6 shots (half of them twin linked) on Walkers that can effectively JSJ behind buildings, with a built in 5++ just in case they need it.
Talking to one of the guys who plays Grey Knights he feels that the Wraithknight is a much better option for what it brings because it has a better statline, better starting firepower and is a Jump MC for cheaper than the Dreadknight does it for a similar sort of load out. The only switch is that the Dreadknight has a built in invulnerable save. So some people seem to like it.

As for it's cost, honestly for your average army to take it down, they'll be forced to direct anti-tank at it. Doing so means that they aren't directing it at anything else in your army, and if you too the Suncannon/Scattershield with a Scatter Laser you've got the ability to Twin-link your 3 Blast Templates while acting as a fast moving target. It's threatening, durable, fast and distracts from the rest of the army fairly effectively. Call me a bit too positive, but I think they balanced points to effective utility rather well on this thing. It's not an auto-include but it's not bad either.

Additionally I wouldn't compare it to the Riptide. The Riptide is an Elite mobile gun platform, this is a big scary stompy thing that will make players nervous. I also wouldn't take 2 (1 and a unit of Walkers who have Scatter Lasers, EML and the Flakk Missiles would easilly be my first two heavy Slots) in most games, but 1 will definitely keep the heat off of things. And if you get "Big Guns Never Tire" you have potentially one of the hardest to shift objective holders in the game (easy to tie up mind you, just hard to shift).

You don't seem to rate the Crimson Hunter much, but I predict it'll be almost the only thing you see in tournament lists FA slots because our book has no viable Skyfire. None. Not a single unit. That means our only answer to Flyers are our own Flyers, and 4 S8 AP2 Vector Dancer shots is a pretty damn good answer, even at the 160pt mark. Of course if your local group doesn't play with flier heavy armies then you can utilize the much improved Spiders instead.
So Walkers with an EML with Flakk Missiles, Starlight Engines and Scatterlasers doesn't do it for you? Sure they aren't cheap, but they have Battle Focus which gives them a LOT of range to get about the board, get good lines of sight and use the volume of Scatter Laser shots to twin-link the EMLs.

I also think you're underselling Serpents - the only fast skimmer transport in the game that averages 11 shots at S6/7 for 130pts. As a firepower unit that's more cost effective than most of our heavy support section.
I agree that Serpents are frikkin' awesome. I don't know how many we'll honestly see on the board though. I guess it'll depend on the kind of list you're trying to play to be honest.

The rest of your post I agree with, for the most part. I too am slightly disappointed in the lack of unique options, and have a sinking feeling that the internal balance of this book is just as bad as the last one, just with different units.
I feel the internal balance is actually pretty high. There are a lot of good choices vying for spots in a lot of positions, and most of the stuff feels pretty well pointed.

My only disappointment is the lack of grenades for Banshees.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I think Zion hit it on the head about the wraithknight, like I said in my post its a little too early to really tell. I will need to run through a number of lists vs various armies before I can really talk about it with experience. I do know my Space Wolf friend is already upset that he cannot Jaw's it effectively.

As for the serpent, it does make a better MBT than our MBT. However the majority of the units the codex is pushing forth won't need/can't use the Serpent at all. Basically it feels like we are playing third edition again where all armor is optional and big blobs can win you games.

As for the grenades, they DO have "pretend" grenades. Even if they assault into cover a -5 to INT will make the MAJORITY of models INT 1 as well. So they at least all fight at initiative step 1.

Like I mentioned, allied Dark Eldar can really make them work in terms of grenades.

Edit:
So Walkers with an EML with Flakk Missiles, Starlight Engines and Scatterlasers doesn't do it for you?
Yea don't do that, that is like almost the cost of two Crimson Hunters.

Edit 2:
Whooo 777 posts! Only took me 5 years to do it! :grin:
 

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I'm loving the information you gave us. Thank you. One minor thing though, that you missed, for the Ghostwalk Mantle. Move Through Cover grants the ability to ignore Dangerous Terrain. So, yes, put that on a Skimmer and land wherever the f$%# you want. Except on top of enemy models of course.
 

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Talking to one of the guys who plays Grey Knights he feels that the Wraithknight is a much better option for what it brings because it has a better statline, better starting firepower and is a Jump MC for cheaper than the Dreadknight does it for a similar sort of load out. The only switch is that the Dreadknight has a built in invulnerable save. So some people seem to like it.

As for it's cost, honestly for your average army to take it down, they'll be forced to direct anti-tank at it. Doing so means that they aren't directing it at anything else in your army, and if you too the Suncannon/Scattershield with a Scatter Laser you've got the ability to Twin-link your 3 Blast Templates while acting as a fast moving target. It's threatening, durable, fast and distracts from the rest of the army fairly effectively. Call me a bit too positive, but I think they balanced points to effective utility rather well on this thing. It's not an auto-include but it's not bad either.
In the spirit of friendly debate (i.e. I'm not having a go at you! :laugh:) I'll counter that with:

- Dreadknights are far cheaper without the teleport pack, and so have the option of being spammed, causing target priority issues for the opponent.

- A built in 5++ is exactly what you need when you're too tall to hide and every weapon aimed at you is AP3 or better. Dreadknight also has a native 2+, which is extremely significant.

- The TL suncannon option is 300pts. For that price tag you could buy a unit of scatter walkers and a Farseer, which will average a *lot* more kills against anything with a cover save.

- I agree that it's threatening and a distraction, but that doesn't make it good. A decent player will quickly realize that two S10 shots simply isn't worth the time spent trying to drop it, and will ignore it until he's taken our real firepower units out.

Additionally I wouldn't compare it to the Riptide. The Riptide is an Elite mobile gun platform, this is a big scary stompy thing that will make players nervous. I also wouldn't take 2 (1 and a unit of Walkers who have Scatter Lasers, EML and the Flakk Missiles would easilly be my first two heavy Slots) in most games, but 1 will definitely keep the heat off of things. And if you get "Big Guns Never Tire" you have potentially one of the hardest to shift objective holders in the game (easy to tie up mind you, just hard to shift).
- I'd say they serve a pretty identical purpose. That of tough anchor unit with respectable firepower. Both are mobile - JSJ being better than Jump MC for that purpose in my mind. Both are MCs in combat, but aren't very good at it. Both are firepower magnets. At the end of the day the Riptide simply has better rules (power generator), save (2+), and guns.

- Flakk Walkers? 110pts per AV10 HP2 two-shot platform? A squadron of them for 330pts? Without Interceptor? I really wouldn't. Against Necron Air they wouldn't even get to shoot.

I feel the internal balance is actually pretty high. There are a lot of good choices vying for spots in a lot of positions, and most of the stuff feels pretty well pointed.
I'm not sure.

HQ - Still Farseers and Autarchs are the only real points-efficient choices, with the Avatar being a distant third.

Elites - Our melee units are still pretty jank, being either too fragile or too slow, leaving Dragons the kings of the hill - although you no longer need three units because lances are cheaper and BS4.

Troops - Unchanged. Guardians still too expensive for 12" range guns, Stormies got a nice shift up with BS4 melta, but still crap in actual combat. Avengers do torrent reasonably well in a Serpent, Rangers snipe, and Jetbikes take objectives. They're all slightly better than they were, but internally I don't think the hierarchy has changed with the only wildcard being scoring small units of Wraithguard. Time will tell on that one.

FA - our only AA option and therefore our only option if you routinely play against armies with 4+ flyers. If you don't, probably a pair of hunters and a unit of spiders for that Assault 2 Deep Strike Autocannon goodness.

HS - Probably the most flexible slot. I'll be going for 2x Scatter walker squadrons and 1x Prism for the time being, but there are a few other good options.

As an example list, this is what I've been toying with for fun:

Autarch w/ Mantle, Jetbike, Fusion
10 Avengers w/ Scatter and Chin Serpent
10 Avengers w/ Scatter and Chin Serpent
5 Avengers w/ Scatter and Chin Serpent
Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter
3 Scattter Walkers
3 Scattter Walkers
3 Scattter Walkers
1800pts

Keep everything but the Serpents off the board if you don't have first turn, then alpha strike like a motherfucker when you arrive on a 2+ turn 2 with over 100 S6/7 shots, half of them twin linked, and 8 S8s at BS4. Avengers mop up, Autarch goes tank/walker hunting.
 
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