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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I don't know about other gaming clubs but mine has become a wall of vehicles. Every one just puts everything they can in vehicles and gets in your face.
That coupled with the annoying sweeping advance rule where one guy can run down a 30 man unit and I say we got problems.

The over powered codexs cant be fixed but with a new addition I would like to see vehicles become more dangerous for there passengers if the explode. Maybe no armor save just a straight wound check.

Modify or get rid of the sweeping advance rule. I know its there to speed up the game but seeing one model wipe out 30 is just ridiculous.

Complaining done, going up to have my nids get ran over by the wall of rhinos and land raiders. :blackeye:
 

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I'm not a massive fan of mech myself - or sweeping advance either - but 5th still has legs.

6th will probably hit maybe 2012 or 2013 which would seem about right.

If you really don't like mech, try adding more terrain to the feild. Tanks become less appealing if they can't squeeze between rubble and get immobalised too often by dangerous terrain.
 

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Complaining done, going up to have my nids get ran over by the wall of rhinos and land raiders. :blackeye:
And thats why you are complaining. Nids are rahter new so there codex was built in mind wiht 5th gen. Also it semes funny to me that the person complaing aobut lots of tanks and lone modals beatting down the horde is very ironic(if thats the write word) from a player who has NO tanks and attakcs with the horde.

We need new codexs for Necrons, Dark Eldar, Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters before we even think about a new rule book. Also it only came out a while ago and just becuase your army might be struggling you want to re-write the rule book. the main thing you do is build a new list to combat these problems. You can get sweepign advanced if your fearless so Synapse and get some Zaonthropes and monsters.
 

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I doubt you'll get much sympathy, I find the attitude from allot of players since 5th has changed to something quite disgusting "if your not playing mech your a worthless piece of crap and you don't deserve to play this game" and then continuing to belittle, mock and insult you for as long as they possibly can due to there god complex.
 

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Cool your boots, the rule book isn't you're problem, it's you're local meta game, you can't cry out for the nerd stick because of it. What you do is adapt and counter thier list. Facing rhinos and chimeras? Load up on Hive Guard, got Land Raider trouble? Get some Zoanthropes on the go. 40k is a very Darwinian game so all you can do is adapt and counter in a cycle that keeps the game fresh. I've played since 3rd and I think this is the best edition yet.

As for mech, sure it's normally the most efficient option but it's not the only one. I've played against foot slogging CSM before and that was a challenge, there were so many marines...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Can I crack armor? Certainly. Do I want to make every one of my lists with 30%-50% armour cracking units? NO! I would like to build fun versatile lists. In my local store the wall of armor dictates almost half my list design. That didn't use to be the case. I'm tired of fighting a ton of mech.

It basically comes down to if, I want to have half a chance of winning I have almost 50% of my list forced upon me because of the prevalence of mech lists.
I only dedicated 25% to 33% of my list to armour cracking in the past. This gave me alot of flexibility in list building. Meh I've been playing this game for years and I skipped 4ed entirely so I guess if Mech just stays out of hand in my area I can break for another edition. It just sucks, I like my codex its versatile, I just don't have any opponents who aren't hard core power gamers.

ok off to play may get some arbys or something. Green elf needs food badly!!
 

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Play some where else... simple as that. If you want opponents who aren't all in mech... find new opponents. You say that you don't have the versatility to build the lists you want... to be frank... you can build any list you want... If you want to win 90% of the time... then you have to build a list to counter your opponents. Complaining that you hate building lists so you can win is like Complaining that the cheery on top of your ice cream is too sweet.
 

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Pretty much, sounds like you've just got a suck gaming group. If every playr has to rely on mechs to do anything on teh battlefeild, they can't be that good of players or are just a bunch of immature 'more power' types in it for winning rather then fun.
 

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It does seem strange that a vehicle could explode in a massive fireball, yet every passenger can potentially escape to safety without a scratch. But I digress.

Why don't you speak to the players themselves and ask them if they wish to run a less mechanized list for a change? The problem, as pointed out previously even by yourself, is the type of players you are dealing with. Try suggesting events at your local gaming that cater to your interests. Get creative if it's such a problem, but given the nature of Warhammer you really should be using a big portion of your list to counter your opponents anyway.
 

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Can I crack armor? Certainly. Do I want to make every one of my lists with 30%-50% armour cracking units? NO! I would like to build fun versatile lists. In my local store the wall of armor dictates almost half my list design. That didn't use to be the case. I'm tired of fighting a ton of mech.

It basically comes down to if, I want to have half a chance of winning I have almost 50% of my list forced upon me because of the prevalence of mech lists.
I only dedicated 25% to 33% of my list to armour cracking in the past. This gave me alot of flexibility in list building. Meh I've been playing this game for years and I skipped 4ed entirely so I guess if Mech just stays out of hand in my area I can break for another edition. It just sucks, I like my codex its versatile, I just don't have any opponents who aren't hard core power gamers.

ok off to play may get some arbys or something. Green elf needs food badly!!
yes you do have a versatile codex and you should use that to your advantage. The situation calls for you to pop tanks and you are able to do that, do it enough and you'll make mech unviable and force them to rethink their list, that's the metagame of 40k and if you've been playing as long as you say you have you would know it. Besides you can't complain about something that's well within your power to change.

I'm not trying to sound harsh, I'm actualy very sympathetic, for months I got rolled by mech eldar players. I didn't sit their and complain about it. Instead over the course of about a year I tweaked changed and tinkred with my army untill I forced them to change and so the cycle will start again.

Ultimatley it's down to you wether you skip this edition, I hope you don't though because in that time you could be the one dictating your opponents army composition.
 

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Balanced lists can be made with mech and against mech. Saying the strength of mech in 5th edition is limiting versatility is...well not right. It took a long time for the general community to understand how good transports and mech in general is (see how long it took for Daemons/Orks/Lash-Chaos to stop being called competitive [even though some people still claim they are]) but there are a lot of lists which aren't all tanks which work very well.

Hybrid IG, Hybrid Tau, Vanilla Bikers, Jumper BA (inc. Bloodwing), Loganwing Missiles, TWC SW, Blood Rodeo, Tyranids in any form, etc. Out of my armies 1/3 are fully mech, 1/3 are hybrids and 1/3 have 0 tanks and all are very competitive and good lists.
 

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This is a Blood rodeo. It's one of Kirby's inventions and basically involves using bikers to give assault marines mobile cover. And as to the topic at hand, mech is what fifth brought, and I'd say it's a good thing. It makes the tactics much more interesting, and adds in a factor outside of luck that can completely change the game. Which is nice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Guess I just needed a good whine. Won a game, lost a game had fun in both.
I am still wishing for the good old 3rd ed days though. Out of 2nd 3rd and 5th I have the most love for 3rd.

My memory may be rose colored but it seemed like 3rd ed was better balance than 5th or maybe the skill level of my opponents kept it all balanced.
Back to list building and winged tyrant converting.
 

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I'm wondering what TWC SW is, havn't given much thoughts to the wolves but I'm starting to.

As far as the main point of the thread goes, if you run a few games with mech smashing lists you'll find that most players will change their lists to something else. If you wanna win against people when you know what they're playing don't play a list that they're good against. Play a list to smash the hell out of their transports and kill them all.
 

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@calamari; What Raptors8th said.

@Wusword77; SW TWC is essentially a foot SW list using thunderwolf calvary (inc. Iron Priests & Wolf Lords), long fangs, fenrisian wolves and grey hunters. tailoring is never good, you can run a balanced list which can handle mech, MC, bikes and hordes without having to tailor. Classic example I always use is I brought my Mech SM to the table a lot against a mate. After a few games against his sisters he brought so many meltaguns it was ridiculus (but in odd spots, like 4x mguns on Dominions). Brought Mechdar & later Nids and there were a lot more problems because of his lack of anti-horde. You can build balanced lists which don't need to be changed and this is what tournament lists are about.
 

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Stella - Wow, so am I guessing that you're one of these guys who goes up the the shop... loses a game or two because you don't know how to make a list... and then blames your failure to adapt on WAAC Players who are only playing lots of mech to win - Are you serious? If you're belittled, mocked and insulted (to use your words) it probably has very little to do with any kind of God complex, but more likely do to making statements like the one above. Seriously... being competative does not mean not having fun.... And, what if I really like tanks... why are you crapping on my dreams and imagination. I sometimes miss my days in the USMC (I drove a tank) and playing 40K with all my little tanks is a BIG part of why I like the game... Not just because I think winning is cool too.....

Quachill - Versitile means - competent in many areas and able to turn with ease from one thing to another. So wouldn't being able to handle mech fit into this category as well. Honestly mate, what sort of list do you want to run? Case in point, when the Zoe's show up and start mind zapping my stuff... I cringe, and my buddy smiles... that's the game... it's about conflict....

Grizbe - I'd like to address a few things in your post... but I have no words to describe your lack of understanding here. You just don't seem to "get" what the game is about.

For Gizbe and Stella - You are pretty much asking your opponents to play with bad lists so that you feel better about your own bad choices in the FoC... Why not ask them to only play with 1500 points while you play with 2000? That would let you be more versitile right?

On competition - If you have a really crappy list.... I'm not going to want to play you. There won't be competition. In truth, I'd like everyone to have the best list they can bring... then when we match it against mine, the game is about tactical skill and luck with the dice. There really isn't much fun in clubbing a baby seal. I think I'm pretty competative and that means I would rather your list isn't sucky so that we can have a fair and matched game. I get nothing for beating up subpar players/lists.

The kicked dog routine is getting old. The senarios we play are designed to determine a winner (except the autotie mission) We agree on points to play so is it really MY fault for taking a list I think is good? How bad does my list have to suck to make you feel good?
 

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i can say it i have NOT fallen to the "Mecha wave" as my 4 armys are;
Eldar - Foot slogging and only War walker, no tanks
Space Marines - ton of Drop pods and a few Dreadnoughts so again no tanks.
Tyranids - They have no tanks
Blood angles - only a 1000pts Raider list and thats only becuase i love Raiders.
 

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Wusword... It's the story about the old bull and the young bull....
Young bull - Lets run down there and have us one of those cows...
Old Bull - Nah son, lets walk down there and have them all....

I don't think list tailoring is going to make you better... But if you design a really tough all comers list... then you'll play well against all diff types of armies. Some you'll just flat out own.. and some you'll struggle with.. but you'll have a shot at eveyone across the board.
 
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