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Discussion Starter #1
I don't know why, I always love the idea of a full cavalry army. Chaos Knights are so diesel, and it just hurts that while Chaos Warriors are strong anvils, they're left behind while the Knights charge. And I do so love that charge. (honestly, I should field Bretonnians).

Anyway, just toying around with this idea on paper...

Chaos Lord
MoTz, Disc, Hellfire Sword, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of End

Sorcerer
MoTz, Lvl2, Disc

Sorcerer
MoTz, Lvl2, Disc

Warhounds
x6, Vanguard

Warhounds
x6, Vanguard

Marauder Horsemen
x10, Light Armor, Shields, Spears, Javelins, Full Command

Marauder Horsemen
x10, Light Armor, Shields, Spears, Javelins, Full Command

Chaos Knights
x5, Ens Weapons, Full Command

Chaos Knights
x5, Ens Weapons, Full Command

Skullcrushers
x3, Ens Weapons, Full Command
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
On which ones, do you suggest? All of them? Just the Marauders, or all of the units? I was considering not bothering with anything on them, but frankly I know Cavalry can be weak in combat, so it felt like anything that might add to resolution is desperately needed.

I'm also not sold on the Hellfire Sword... it definitely seems like a cool weapon but I could just as easily use something a little cheaper and give him better invulnerables... Or give Invuls to the Sorcerers to better abuse the MoTz.


another attempt:

Chaos Lord
MoTz, Disc, Biting Blade, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Third Eye of Tz

Sorcerer
MoTz, Lvl2, Disc, Chaos Familiar

Sorcerer
MoTz, Lvl2, Disc, Dispel Scroll

Warhounds
x7, Vanguard

Warhounds
x7, Vanguard

Marauder Horsemen
x10, Light Armor, Shields, Spears, Javelins, Musician / Standard

Marauder Horsemen
x10, Light Armor, Shields, Spears, Javelins, Musician / Standard

Chaos Knights
x5, Ens Weapons, Musician / Standard

Chaos Knights
x5, Ens Weapons, Musician / Standard

Skullcrushers
x3, Ens Weapons, Full Command


The lord can soak up just about anything now... only a 2 on his ward save is a failure, making him damn durable, though he's alot of points. Basically the two sorcerers are my ranged support, and I'll probably give them Lore of Metal to help deal with anvil units I need to soften up.
 

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I usually only include champions on units that will contain a character, otherwise another attack seems quite expensive: if the champion costs close to a rank-and-file then another body is much more valuable; where the unit is small and a champion costs much less than another body then it might be worth it.

The new list looks suitably interesting, and nothing leaps out at me.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Woohoo! one vote! That's more than my armies usually get, so I'm tempted to go for it. I'd need to find some decent models. I'm thinking Thunderwolf Cavalry isntead of Skullcrushers, and finding some army somewhere for light horsement... I'm not a fan of the marauders.
 

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Once the skullcrushers are painted up they look wicked. Mine are only half done but i painted mine differently, with Khorne Red trim and Scorpion Brass bodies. As for the army list, I can vouch for the knights and skullcrushers, they do kick large amounts of tail, but they do cop some flak for being what they are. I would suggest hiding your knights and skullcrushers behind your hounds so they dont get smashed up before getting into combat. Also be aware that although your sorcerer is tough, he's not invincible, attacking small units of units would be the way to go, otherwise you'll lose combat by rank bonus' which really sucks. Also, I'd recommend having at least 1 sorcerer with lore of tz, just for some blasting ability.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Do you think Lore of Tz is better for firepower? I'm really not planning to run the Sorcerers as heavy combat, unless they're adding more weight to, say, the Lord. I was really thinking more of running them like Skycutters... Flying ranged support. I just know that Metal was the other option, and it felt good to be able to hurt enemy armor before my own heavy cavalry crushed into them.

I've never really been a fan of the Skullcrushers... i don't like adding clockwork to my fantasy stuff. I know SOME of the Thunderwolves are cybernetic, but not all of them, so with some selective bits...
 

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I have three main points here that jump out at me.

1. For the love of God include points costs and tell us the point level you're playing at, at least. Sure we could work this out for ourselves, I'm guessing you're playing ~1600pts based on what you're taking, but it'd be nice to actually know. I'm hardly going to spend half an hour pricing up your list before I respond.

2. Drop the Warhounds, they're just wasted flak and they don't fit your army theme anyway. This is an all cavalry army, just because they're cavalry according to the rules doesn't mean they're actually cavalry. Besides, they're crap anyway you're only taking them to make up the core and you're probably expecting them to die, which means you may as well throw the points away. They're just free victory points for your opponent. Don't bother. They make good chaff in larger armies, but at this points level they're not worth it.

3. You don't need both Chaos Knights AND Skullcrushers. Whilst both are nice, you're playing a low point level which means they're doing the same job. On top of that, unless you're doing them properly, ie. supported with a character in a large unit, preferably containing the BSB. Skullcrushers are easily lead around on a merry goose chase because of Frenzy, especially if the enemy has a chariot he fancies baiting you with.

What I would do:-

1. Combine the Chaos Knights into one unit with two ranks. It'll make them hit like a tone of bricks and they will actually hurt what they hit. You also want to take advantage of the ability to have a magic banner.

2. Take the Marauders in units of 15 if you can and drop the Javelins. They're not going to be doing hit and run tactics anyway as they're not fast cavalry with light armour. You want these guys going alongside the Knights, protecting their flanks, slightly ahead of the Knights to take flak. Take Throwing Axes if you have the points spare, you'll only get to realistically fire once though as a stand and shoot and that's only if you're charged, but as the Marauders are going slightly ahead of the Knights, they're more likely to receive a charge so it can work as a good tactic. An axe in the face can turn the tide as often opponents forget to take into account the marauders throwing axe.

3. Take Hellstriders. They're hard hitting and fast, and because they're Slaaneshi, being away from the Generals leadership isn't as big of an issue. They're both a troubleshooter and capable in combat if you need them to be. Unlike the dogs, they will actually win reliably against most of the war machines out there. The whole point of fast cav is to take out cannons, volley guns etc. and while Warhounds get Vanguard, they're not actually fast cav, so no swift reforms etc. and they're far too easy to break in combat.

4. I'd reconsider your general entirely. Ideally, you want your general staying with the main army, possibly in with the knights. This way he gets "look out sir", and the benefits of the units magic banner. Also the knights and the units around them (the marauder horsemen) all get the benefit of the Generals leadership. Secondly, having you general flying around alone on a disc is practically asking for him to be shot by cannon.

That's my take on the army. I realise I'm suggesting quite substantial changes to the army but I think it would be far more survivable this way. Remember though, my opinions and tactics are just that, an opinion. There's loads of ways to run chaos, so don't presume my way is right.
 

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I do not see the Warhounds as just filling space. I see them as a deployment drop that you can make without worrying that it will cost you an expensive unit if you get it wrong. WoC are often outnumbered, so getting an idea of your opponent's deployment before you commit is often an advantage.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Tornado: Sorry, I tend to write lists while I'm on a phone app or something, and then when I'm posting I'm in a location where I usually can't whip the phone out. My lists are almost always 2000, be it for FB or 40k. This one is no exception.

I had the Skullcrushers mostly because I liked the idea of one really heavy looking unit to help rush into things... A spear tip as it were. I could probably just use Chaos Knights, but I try to get some variety into my lists along with just using what works. I had basically designed it with three blocks in mind... Large 'cheap' infantry, smaller squads of more lethal heavy cavalry, and then finally a block of elite murderers. Unfortunately, Skullcrushers only come in one flavor, and that's bloodgod. I could just as easily see this working just with two blocks of Chaos Knights and filling out the Marauders a bit, I had simply wanted to toy with more models and variety.

I liked the hounds as something almost like Eagles in my elven armies... Run forward, tangle things up.

I totally agree about the Lord. He was on a disc simply because it was available, and seemed like an interesting idea, to add some more variety and a unique method of attack. However, lacking three more Heroes on Discs to make some sort of squad out of them, I realize that's a poor idea, and will downgrade him to a steed and strap him to the Knights most likely.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So I'd love some opinions on how to make a nice 2000 point Cavalry force. Marauders of course have to be my Core, but I can bulk them up with some wolves for disposable wounds or as harrassing units.

Chaos Knights, of course, are the perfect model; they're really solid cavalry with Ensorcelled weapons. I really should just run as many as possible of them. Maybe some Steeds of Slaneesh to support... Skullcrushers would really be great to help shatter things, but I think I'd need to hold those to going up to 2500.

I'm also thinking probably one powerful Lord leading the charge by horseback, with a squad of Knights, and 2 Tzeentch Disc-riding Sorcerers to act as fire support.

Any suggestions?
 

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If i was you, I'd make my chaos Lord a bit scarier. Yes he has a 3+ inv save with re-rolls of 1 making him near invincible, but he doesn't have that "im going to destroy you're whole unit if you don't challenge me" feel. Putting him on a disc in my eyes is how you fly him around and challenge everyone or make them pay. The alternative to this is changing him to a sorcerer lord and blasting units with MoT lore then finishing what is left.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I already had two Sorcerers for zooming around and crushing things with warpfire... How would you suggest an aggressive Tzeentchian Lord for that sort of brutality?
 

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The Tzeentch lord isn't made to be fighty. They are generally there to hold up a big unit while the reinforcements get into position to lay the smack down. With the possibility of a 1+ armor save, 3+ ward save that rerolls 1s, Stubborn, Fear, Fly, and maybe the ability to regain wounds, said lord isn't going anywhere unless you're really unlucky with your dice. Common build is:

Lord w/ Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch, Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command, 3rd Eye of Tzeentch, Soul Feeder, Scaled Skin, Halberd - 378

This guy can take a beating and come out pretty much unscathed. There is, however, a lot of hate for this build. Another common build forgos the Scaled Skin for an Enchanted Shiled, magic weapon (usually Sword of Striking to allow him to hit on 2s), and Flaming Breath gift.

Like I said, he's there to be a real pain to kill while your 'crushers and knights come in from the sides to do the real damage.

For a killy lord I'd go for a Khornite lord on Jugger in a unit of Skullcrushers. Or save on some points and give him a barded chaos steed and put him in a unit of knights w/ MoK and Banner of Rage so they never lose their Frenzy. Just be careful you don't get pulled around the battle field due to Frenzy.
 

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The great thing about the lore of Tz is the range of the spells, all 24" bar the one that targets enemy wizards (18" i think) and the flame template one, and im pretty sure lore of metal only has 1 or 2 spells that actually damage on the enemies armour save, the rest are hex spells, and lets be honest, if you're relying on hex spells to help out a bloodcrusher, chaos knight charge, you don't have enough faith in your bloodcrushers/chaos knights! On the up side, if things do go badly in a combat, you can still hex the enemy in combat to help out. Karnal has a good point about the Lord which I oversaw, he can hold up units with stubborn and 2++ save and really annoy the crap out of your opponent until the.... cavalry arrive... hue hue hue hue. Just get the tear cup ready.
 
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