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Discussion Starter #1
Well I have played a couple of flavors of CSM in my day. I played pure cult Worldeaters for a time and they were a lot of fun. I moved from them and then played a very flavorful Word Bearers list with as much theme as possible. This was also a lot of fun to play. I have played a Deathguard list that also followed the cult theme to the letter. I always told myself that after I had been in the hobby for 10 years I would play a pure 1K Sons list. I got away from the hobby for some time but now i am back and have been working on a Sister of Battle list. During this project my mind wandered back to the 1K Sons so here I am. I have not bought anything at this point and want to keep my costs to a minimum, though I realize that this will be a bit pricey. Looking to get a nice 1500 point list and I intend to stick with the cult theme.

Here is what I am thinking of at the moment. I realize that the Oblits would be a great choice but I would really like to stay away from them due to fluff reasons. In addition, I have read on the termicides, but I do not like them as the number is low, not arguing the effectiveness just not wanting to run them.

HQ
DP with MoT, DB, Warp Time, Wings 185
Should allow me to deal with tanks and tie it up with most units, has some range and has the ability to get where I need him to be

TROOPS
8 1K Sons marines
1 Aspiring Sorcerer w/ DoomBolt and melta Bombs
Rhino with Demonic Possession 314

8 1K Sons marines
1 Aspiring Sorcerer w/ DoomBolt and melta Bombs
Rhino with Demonic Possession 314

8 1K Sons marines
1 Aspiring Sorcerer w/ DoomBolt and melta Bombs
Rhino with Demonic Possession 314

HEAVY SUPPORT
Pred with lascannons all around, Demonic Possession 185

Vindicator with Demonic Possession 145

Leaves me a few points to play with. was thinking I could upgrade the Sorcerers to have Bolt of Change for some more AT or I could add Combi Meltas to the Rhinos. I think that the BOC would be the better bet but I am open to suggestions at this point. I have not bought anything but I intend to pretty soon. Want to get this force together and on the table ASAP. I like the idea of it being a small elite force. I have thought of taking some Lesser Demons to be cheap objective holders but was not sure. could tweak the points some to do this if need I think.

Gub
 

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Drop the possession on the rhinos. give them extra armor. if you change all of them you can get a combi melta on one if you really want or even a bolt on a sorcerer.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That is an option. That will free up 15 points. Would you suggest taking the single combi melta or the Bolt on a Sorc? I figure the bolt gets multiple shots in theory whereas the Combi melta only gets one unless it gets popped before it gets a chance. Seems the Bolt would be the better bet. Open to suggestions.

What about the rest of the list? Solid. I realize I limit myself with the pure cult theme but I guess that defilers and Dreads are options even with the theme. Would I better off grabbing those or are the current HS options working?

Gub
 

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it's better to go with the bolt you do get more shots but it's going to be hard to still pop raiders and the front of the heavy tanks.

I would try to get a defiler instead of the pred. that's to many points for that. plus getting a defiler with 2 CCW would free you up enough points to give another sorcerer bolt or even give the DP bolt
 

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presonally i would take the 15 and upgrade the prince to have bolt instead of doombolt. with a BS of 5 and rerolls thanks to warptime your garunteed that it will be sucessful every turn.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I think that the addition of the Bolt over Doombolt would be good but the DP will have no issue dealing with Armor thanks to being the MC that he is. Does it seem redundant to have him shooting tanks when he can crush them?

What is the feeling on havoc racks for the rhinos? They seem to be a good choice allowing for them to fire and the Bolter to fire as a defensive weapon.

Things are coming along with the list thanks to the input. Keep it coming. My noob is showing with the Tsons but i think I ma learning.

Gub
 

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I think the best reason to use Havoc launchers is on outflanking rhinos or units in reserve. Say a melta-chosen squad waits until the last turn to outflank from reserves but your opponent gets to decide which table edge. If he puts them somewhere useless, at least you have a 48" S5 small blast with re-roll on scatter.

On the table the rhino is an easy anti-tank target and the havoc will likely be destroyed, increasing it's survivability with extra armour will almost double its cost.
 

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my 1500 point 1k sons list runs as follows,

DP, tzeentch, wings, warptime, wind of chaos 205

8 Tsons, sorcerer, wind of chaos, rhino, 314
8 Tsons, sorcerer, wind of chaos, rhino 314
8 sons, sorcerer, doombolt, rhino 299

vindicator 120
vindicator 120
vindicator 120


some of my points totals might be out but thats what i run and it usually covers all bases pretty nicely, its good to have an army that you rarely have to change, when moving up to 2000 points consider dreads with eccw, another prince, more sons, possesion for your vindicators... a squad of vannilla marines wit melta in a rhino can be bloody usefull aswell!
peace
 

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the idea behind bolt on a prince is that when the bolt pops the tank the prince can then assault the unit that was inside instead of being fired upon by them and then being assaulted. as for havocs? i find them to be hugely useful agenst any kind of foe, as they make up for my lack of decent mass wound capable firepower.
 

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DP, tzeentch, wings, warptime, Wind of Chaos 205

8 sons, sorcerer, doombolt, rhino 299
8 Tsons, sorcerer, Gift of Chaos (GoC), rhino 314
8 sons, sorcerer, doombolt, rhino 299

Oblits x2 150
Oblits x3 225

1492

DP that can deal with Armore/Infatry .... check.
3 Troop choices.... check.
Adaptable HS.... check.

Your DP can always use WoC before assault, and WT during the Assault. Since MoT allows you to get a 4+ save and use two powers a turn.

The Two Doom Bolt Squads shoot your opponet up. The GoC unit moves with them for CC support. Its better then WoC if someone tries to asualt you or if your Rhino makes it close to the Enemy. Either way if any sqaud or IC is in your 6" Range cast GoC. Also thanks to MoT you can cast it twice if it fails the first time or to make 2 Spawn instead of 1. Now your crappy CC TSons dont look so bad when they have 2 Spawns fighting the same enemy. Helps out alot if this squad move with a Doombolt squad.

Finnaly Oblits. Buy one box of Termies. purchase or use 5 TSons heads or Sorcerous looking Heads. Get some Green Stuff. You do this 2 ways. 1) use the TSons heads and Greenstuff the Combi weapons and whatever Meltas, Plasma, Reaper Cannon, Ect. onto their arms as Warp Flesh. 2) U could use Sorcerous looking Head bits and use Icon or Staff in the Termies Gun hands as Staffs or channeling devices, and count the Powerful Sorceror Termies as Oblits. Summoning Warp Power (TW Meltas, Plasma Cannon, Las, PF) to deal with any foe. Ethier way its Fluffy, Cheaper, and very much needed Long Range than 3 Vindis.
 

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I have been pondering the GoC technique and want to give it a shot myself. This is what I have come up with:

It is great for rhino rushing compared to the shooty powers, get out and rapid fire and use the following melee as a "spawning" pool. With a supporting BoC squad this could be quite nice.

A tzeentch DP with wings and BoC and GoC could just end his movement near an assault and help out a squad next turn with a spawn then move on and fire elsewhere with a BoC

This brought me to a Tzeentch Sorcerer on Steed or jumppack/wings. Attached to a squad of raptors with melta and LC champ. Having this character in assault is risky buisness, so don't! Advance with the raptors but break coherency during movement before assaulting a target with raptors. He can chill there out of combat next turn and create a spawn. Then, move 12" and fire BoC 24" at something while landing near another assault for a next turn Spawn. DP could do this but would find it harder to jump around without getting bogged into assault. Bike could do similar.

Creating 3 spawn a game will gain you 120 points of free T5 wounds (lascannons and powerfists be damned), while taking away possibly 3 expensive models from an enemy and tying his unit up.

That might be for a higher points game so I would say Warlock in Training's strategy is sound.

Edit: seriously, being able to remove that 1 melee weapon that can harm PM from a squad they are in assault with, they would be immortal. Each spawn will role independently for movement so multiples could be flying around after that assault, tying things up like crazy
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I like the idea and the tactic has merits. I will have to try it out at some point though right now just figuring out how the list works is top priority. New to the army and out of pocket with the game so need to relearn the basics I guess.

On a related note what are the opinions on taking Terminators with MoT? I would want to take 8 regular and the champ for the sacred number. I realize that Termicides seem to be the rage but I like cult numbers. They are pricey but could be a welcome addition the list. A few icons on the troops help with DS options, and they can bring some much needed AT to the list.

Gub
 

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No to termies DS. BIG no to Termies in High Numbers DS. DS termies with no Icon is fatal. DS with Icon is taticaly inflexible. You have no way of Gauranteeing the Termies will show up when you need them. When they do Show up they shoot and thats all, that makes them easy tergets. Termies have no Assault Gernades, thus all those units in cover will hit (and most likely) rape the Termies unless your packing all PF in which case is VERY expensive. So 9 Termies with MoT and PF is costing half your army and you cant gaurantee when they arrive or where they will end up. Dont do it, even from a fun view its going to be to much fun when you lose on turn 3-4 cos half you Pts died from a mishap or never showed at all. Plus they cant even Sweep Advance. Its just awful, and a bad Moral Check means they can go running. Dont do it :cray:, think of the children.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So I am getting that you think they are a bad idea.:biggrin:

Well perhaps back to the drawing board. Am I to assume that the Termicide is the only terminator option that is considered viable.

Gub
 

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...what are the opinions on taking Terminators with MoT? I would want to take 8 regular and the champ for the sacred number....
As you like sacred numbers, I assume that you are not looking to build the ultimate power list. I am therefore less negative about this than Warlock-in-Training.

The psychological impact of nine Terminators is quite large on most people at the having fun level.

This will probably cause them to attempt to overkill the unit, rather than rely on killing enough to break their morale; with nine models to kill and the 2+/4+ save this will probably use up more fire-power than should have been used.
 

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Edit: Dave t is right, a large squad with MoT is pretty resilient, if just hard to place.

The termicide can get off that nice shot on something, but will likely die afterwards. If you have no fear, try out a Multi-melta dread or something. I would consider it fluffy, and some of those FW dreads look badass.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I think that the dread is also an option. I have been looking at the FW ones. I am mostly looking for the have fun option. So I will try the Terminators and see what happens.

I will ekep you posted.

Gub
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I actually have been looking at this list as well and it might work and be a lot of fun.


basically the idea was to run
DP as above with WT and BoC wings

3 Squads of rubrics at the magic number of 9 in rhinos with icons
Squad of lesser demons also numbering 9
Dread with ML and Lascannon
Dread with ML and Plasma Cannon.

Gives me range support and loads of troops, well loads for the TSons anyway. Also provides a great excuse to buy 2 of the FW dreads and extra bits. Of course if they freak out the pain will happen but when they shoot they will be a terror down field. This is for the 1500 level. I still want to add some Terminators to the mix and will play around with them as well.

Gub
 

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As you like sacred numbers, I assume that you are not looking to build the ultimate power list. I am therefore less negative about this than Warlock-in-Training.

The psychological impact of nine Terminators is quite large on most people at the having fun level.

This will probably cause them to attempt to overkill the unit, rather than rely on killing enough to break their morale; with nine models to kill and the 2+/4+ save this will probably use up more fire-power than should have been used.
Im not being negative at all. If you want to do it then do it, but Im sure spending $100 on Termies that run or die easily every game is no fun after a few games. Im just forwarning the man of a taticaly bad idea.

I actually have been looking at this list as well and it might work and be a lot of fun.


basically the idea was to run
DP as above with WT and BoC wings

3 Squads of rubrics at the magic number of 9 in rhinos with icons
Squad of lesser demons also numbering 9
Dread with ML and Lascannon
Dread with ML and Plasma Cannon.

Gives me range support and loads of troops, well loads for the TSons anyway. Also provides a great excuse to buy 2 of the FW dreads and extra bits. Of course if they freak out the pain will happen but when they shoot they will be a terror down field. This is for the 1500 level. I still want to add some Terminators to the mix and will play around with them as well.

Gub

This works better as a fun and "taticaly workable" army. The LD can show up and deal with any imeddiat CC threats. The Dreads should always be in front of your force (as the rules of 5th specify they can only aim 180 degrees infront of them when they go nutso) and mow down enemies till the Rubics get in range for double tapping.
 
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