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Discussion Starter #1
So I was thinking about it a lot... the Dark Angels are supposed to be the first legion, with access to lots and lots of ancient, arcane tech. They especially have lots and lots of plasma. I rather like that. Everywhere you look, Plasma. Sammael? Plasma Cannon bike. Termies? Plasma cannons. Black Knights? Plasma Talons.

So I decided that they need to take that theme, and go with something along those lines for their air support as well... especially considering the Nephilim just plain sucks.

Ravenwing Archangel - 180 points
BS 4, FA 11 SA 11 RA 11 HP 3
Unrelenting Hunter, Strafing Run

6 Blacksword Missiles
Plasma Burst Cannon (36" S7 AP2 Heavy 3)


What do people think?
 

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Rattlehead
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Still overpriced and... well, it has a 3-shot Plasma Gun. The Night Scythe has pretty much the same armament, and it's almost half the price as well as a host of other benefits. As it is, the Archangel is 20pts less than a Stormraven with Twin-Linked Plasma Cannon, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta and 4 Strike Missiles, as well as AV12, a transport capacity, and Assault Vehicle to boot. I think this vehicle needs to be significantly up-gunned or made a lot cheaper.

I'd change the points cost to 150pts and change the Plasma Burst Cannon to a Vengeance Plasma Battery.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Heck, I'm all about making it cheaper, honestly. I was trying not to do that, really, but I'd be all for it.

Another thought that I had was that I once saw someone convert the Hurricane Bolters on the Dark Talon into some sort of Plasma Talon array. I have no idea the stats he was using for it, but that'd be pretty sweet too.

My only concern with using the Vengeance's battery was its range.
 

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well, on the bright side, this plasma weapon doesn't have "get's hot" on it.

LOL

I think if it was a 2, maybe 3 shot, small blast - akin the plasma cannon, it would be an excellent choice for anti-heavy infantry/light armor.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Honestly, the weapon I had been thinking of using was the Plasma Destructor from IA; the one that it uses on the Deimos-pattern Predator. But I can't remember... I know Blasts can't Snap Shot... Can it be used as anti-air? Considering the Unrelenting Hunter rules, I wanted it to be able to shoot down other aircraft as well.

Would it be too over the top to make a 36" version of the Plasma Storm battery as it's primary weapon, with the Blackswords on the wings?
 

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blasts cannot be shot at other flyers.

I do not know what the missiles do, so if those are AA missiles (that are decent enough) then having just them is fine, it's not like you will use all 6 in a game all the time anyways.

IIRC Strafing Run is good against Ground units, which was why I thought using blasts was appropriate.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Strafing Run is god against Ground Units, while Unrelenting Hunter was designed to take down fliers. The Blackswords are S6 Ap3. So not bad, but... it's not going to really threaten a Stormraven.
 

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Rattlehead
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Strafing Run is god against Ground Units, while Unrelenting Hunter was designed to take down fliers. The Blackswords are S6 Ap3. So not bad, but... it's not going to really threaten a Stormraven.
They're AP4, and thus the most irredeemable piece of shit excuse for Missiles I've ever seen.

Unrelenting Hunter is a really, really bad rule. Why would you ever choose to Vector Lock (otherwise known as do absolutely nothing) a Night Scythe or Heldrake (y'know, the only flyers that anyone gives a flying fuck about) when you could be completely neutralising it's impact through a Weapon Destroyed? It's like choosing to Immobilise a Vindicator instead of Weapon Destroy it, there's absolutely no reason you ever would.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Right. So....

With all of that said, how many points would you suggest if I stripped all the weapons off a Nephilim, and gave it two 'Hurricane Plasma Talons' (x3 TL Plasma Talons) and a Plasma Storm Battery? It makes it a fairly short range flier, which honestly I'm not a fan of, but at least it would have some real kick.
 

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Rattlehead
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I think you just found a way to make the Nephilim viable. It's far from overpowered at the premium points cost, but it has a more appropriate damage output and fits the fluff of the unit more (a Dark Angels interceptor that uses shit missiles and is bad at anti-air, transformed into a plane that uses Plasma out the wazoo and is actually pretty damn good anti-flyer). Remove Strafing Run though, that rule never made sense.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So you're suggesting the following?

------------------------
Nephilim Jetfighter, 'Archangel' Pattern


Ravenwing Archangel - 180 points
BS 4, FA 11 SA 11 RA 11 HP 3
Unrelenting Hunter

2 Hurricane Plasma Talons (counts as 3 TL Plasma Talons)
Plasma Storm Battery
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It's weaponry is now pretty damn potent... at very close ranges. Is it worth 180 yet?
 

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Rattlehead
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Yes - it's only really good at 9" away, which is AWFULLY close, and it has pretty average survivability (who says 'SHIT, A LONE NIGHT SCYTHE?', and you are more than likely to blow yourself out of the sky because you're losing .75 Hull Points to Gets Hot! every turn). Unrelenting Hunter is now slightly less garbage since it's not out of the question that you'll be dealing a Vector Lock + Weapon Destroyed now that you actually have a relevant armament.

I like it a lot more than the GW one.

Actually, to give it a bit of flavour outside 'It's a flyer with Plasma Guns' and completely stamp out any chance for people to think it broken, I'd give it a rule in a similar vein to the Terminus Ultra:
'If the Archangel rolls four or more 1's to hit in a single shooting phase (before re-rolls for Gets Hot!), no hits are resolved and the Archangel must immediately roll on the Vehicle Damage Chart as the power capacitors burn out to catastrophic effect.'
 

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Discussion Starter #13
*laughs* Well, that's one way to give it some character.

My real concern, I suppose, is it's range. But I bet it would look like an amazing conversion (I saw someone had actually done one once, removing the hurricane bolters to add the Plasma Gun muzzles. It certainly feels like a better Dark Angels flier, taking advantage of their tech a lot more than stasis bombs and shadow cannons.

Now we just need it published in the next Imperial Armour!
 
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