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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hello guys,
normaly i play and help people with 40k but i have recently started playing some fantasy with some friends who know what there doing and there having a triumph and treachery game and i need help with a good list

so i using a friends warriors of chaos army and hes got everythin to choose from and its at 1500 points i have just under two weeks plz help guys
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
so atm i been looking and this is jumping out at me

chaos sorc lord - lv 4 , demonic mount , spell familiar
throgg

6x trolls +extra hand wep
6x trolls +extra hand wep

9x ogres + great weps and fc

leaving me with 120 points i not sure what to do with?

will be throgg in 1 of the troll units and the sorc with the ogres on the second rank using death or shadow magic any thoughts
 

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Well, first off, the list is illegal since you have no core troops. If you put Throgg in there then you can use the trolls as core and you'll be set. Otherwise, you'll need to do some serious revisions to the list.

If you do use the ol' troll king a large group of ogres like that could be problematic. They're sort of a glass hammer. They'll either crush stuff or get crushed themselves. While they do get access to marks of chaos they don't have the impact hits that the normal OK ogres get. Top that w/ WS3 (not that great), low I values, and, IIRC, Ld7 they could be in trouble. The best roll I've seen for chaos ogres has been in a 2x2 formation - marked and w/ great weapons. They're just big enough to do some damage but not so big that losing them will break your game plan. For marks I'd go w/ Khorne, Nurgle, or Slaanesh. Then you have some points left over for some chaff units (hounds, marauder horse, a chariot or 2 ... ).

If you put the sorc in w/ the ogres, remember:
1) the sorc gets no "Look out, Sir!" roll
2) the sorc will be slowed to the speed of the ogres

I'd not rely on the armor save for the sorc to keep him alive. A ward save of some type would be highly suggested. Taking a S10 hit w/ 1 wound left won't be fun if there's no way to save that hit. Not to mention a lot of war machines and spells ignore armor.

Hope that helps some!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thx for the info just to point out that throgg is in that list and the oges do get the ogre charge i just checked codex but i do see the other flaws u pointed out i was thinkin of changing to suprise every1 in the game with 1xlv and 2x lv 2 sorcs with lord of undeath and then throgg 7 trolls and 8 trolls and some maruders with the rest of the point and just raise stuff
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
so i think of supriseing them with this

lv4 sorc - familar
lv 2 sorc skull of katam
lv 2 sorc
throgg

7x trolls
8x trolls

and then the 205 points and a unit like maruders with light armor and shield (just for keeping sorcs safe ) and then raise a ton of stuff useing lore of undeath

this is very basic but in a 5 person t&t i think i can pull it off
 

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4d6 winds of magic is fairly brutal if you roll all 4 mid to large, but 2 big 2 small kills you. If you get your 9 spells a turn, that is a potential 3rd turn summon of +270 points for a unit. A hefty grave guard pull.

If you are not running Khaine rules don't bother with that many casters. Swap for chariots. And take a Mark of Tz.

Please give your general some defence. Enchanted shield and a Talisman of Preservation gives you a 2+/4++. Pop it on a disc for a 1+, flight etc and a third eye to reroll. If you take Mark, Third Eye and al that, you have a 1+/3++ rerolling 1's. It stays alive yo.

Throgg sucks as do big lumbering wide frontage units which get caught on terrain. Msu trolls, or preferably, Dragon Ogres/Skullcrushers fit their roll better. If you have to take a lot of trolls, 3 units of 3 or 4 (ran 2x2) can be pretty good, but need a BSB and/or general to babysit. Throgg is just too expensive for that.

Chariots are ace, cheap damage causers.

Hellcannon are excellent options.



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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
why would it be 4d6 winds ? also i wanna stay away from the disk wanker as hes named for that reason this is fun 5 person ffa i wanted somthin a bit diff
 

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Well fuck me! I have no idea why I thought Chaos Ogres didn't have the charge?!? :crazy: Must be stuck on last book for some odd reason. Gives me a little hope now and makes me want to try out a 4-man in 2x2 formation even more now!

And apologies for missing Throgg in there as well. :scratchhead: Must be that whole "reading" thing getting the better of me again ... :shok:

Like Vaz said - that lvl 4 bro needs some ward save love. A 4+ armor save just isn't going to cut it. To much stuff out there that will mitigate that armor. Even if you don't want to be "that guy" and bust out the Hortense Disco Lord of Unkillability, the MoT and the Talisman of Endurance still gives you a 4+ ward. Gives a little wiggle room for extra toys then as well.

And as far as the army being different ... well, the whole Throgg thing is actually pretty common.

The 4D6 winds are part of the latest End Times release. Nagash allowed for all wizards to use Undeath, Glottkin gave us Chaos Legions and KF Empowered, and Khaine gives all players 4D6 to the WoM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
well that would be interesting also insted of toys i thinkin of useing last 200 point to just give like 30 maruders and like a shield and summon zombies first turn (and i this game i can garantee first turn no1 will dispell me ) but i might look into buffing them

also i have a lv 2 and 2x lv 2 atm (1 with skul of katam) do u think 2x lv 4 would be better ?
i using lore of undeath so more units will apear fast i think
 

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Without 4d6 winds you'll not have enough dice to cast all those spells. 1 Tooled up caster works the best. That lord might be a bellend, but there's a reason he's chosen. Chaos Sorcerers are overcosted for what they do - being a Level 4 Caster in armour. Any other L4 caster can plop on a 4+ ward and sit in a block and be happy - Damsels, Wizard Lords, Master Necros etc. They don't need kitting, they just need to cast spells.

Think about it; 2d6 average roll is 7 dice, +1 for channel - gets you 8 dice to cast 4 spells. Level 4 with Skull is a 4+ to cast, meaning that 2 dicing your 4 spells gets you an average score of 11 to cast, and easily dispellable by an opponent letting through a couple of spells to stop the important ones.

The reason I brought up the 4d6 Magic is that the Khaine (Book 3) rules for the End Times introduced new magic phase rules, of which one is 4d6 Winds (Dispel Dice is 2 highest results). I assumed you were playing them as you brought up the Lore of Undeath.

If you're looking for a survivable Sorc Lord, have you considered Scaled Skin, Helm of Many Eyes and an Amulet of Preservation for a 1+/4++? Alternatively, Ench Shield+Amulet for a 2+/4++. Mark of Tzeentch bars access to Lore of Undeath, so no help there. Giving it Soul Feeder even without Third Eye is helpful, while Familiar is a lovely little boost - giving you 1 extra dice to channel with and a 5th spell.

One thing I rarely see is Wulfrik with Marauders. It can throw a fair bit of consternation into things to have 30 WS4 S5 2 Attack models appear behind enemy lines in the second turn. Unit cost = 500pts including Wulfrik.

Sorcerer Lord, 330
Wulfrik = 180

30 Marauders, GW, Mark of Khorne, Standard, Musician = 320
10 Chaos Warriors, Shields = 150pts
5 Chaos Warhounds, Mutant Poisons = 35pts
5 Chaos Warhounds, Mutant Poisons = 35pts
Nurgle Chariot = 125pts

4 Chaos Ogres (ran 2x2), Great Weapons = 162
4 Chaos Ogres (ran 2x2), Great Weapons = 162

Gives you 2 drops which can cause a bit of consternation to slow monsters (I3 or less), Nurgle Chariots are ace with WS5 - WS3 hits on 5's for example. Warriors are tough and can withstand some firepower, especially with zombie shields.

Ogres have an 80mm frontage with 12 S6 Attacks, plus Stomp and Ogre Charge. A few decent threats that divides enemy range and magic, which then gets hit by Ambushing Marauders.



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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
i was thinking of wulfrik for my main chaos army but this is only a t&t 5 man game i wanna have fun with crazy stuff thats why i have 3 sorcs with undeath = throg and 15 trolls do have 200 points over so rather than super buffing sorcs just dump into a large unit of marauders till i suppom zombies
 

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Chaos Sorcerers are overcosted for what they do - being a Level 4 Caster in armour. Any other L4 caster can plop on a 4+ ward and sit in a block and be happy - Damsels, Wizard Lords, Master Necros etc. They don't need kitting, they just need to cast spells.
Especially when they compete with Daemon Princes, who are admittedly a lot more expensive but can fight very well, are a very tough Unbreakable unit, and are extremely mobile (a great boon for spells and Flaming Breath).

Sorcerer Lord, 330
Wulfrik = 180

30 Marauders, GW, Mark of Khorne, Standard, Musician = 320
10 Chaos Warriors, Shields = 150pts
5 Chaos Warhounds, Mutant Poisons = 35pts
5 Chaos Warhounds, Mutant Poisons = 35pts
Nurgle Chariot = 125pts

4 Chaos Ogres (ran 2x2), Great Weapons = 162
4 Chaos Ogres (ran 2x2), Great Weapons = 162
I quite like this for what the army's doing (although I'm of the opinion that Marauders are strictly a support unit for blocks of Chaos Warriors), but I'd suggest dropping the Great Weapons down to Flails on the Marauders (since they're I4, which is powerful against Orcs/Ogres/Lizardmen and anything they're not absolutely mauling with a rear charge on the first round of combat isn't something they're capable of killing anyway) and the Mutant Poisons on the Warhounds. I think as point fillers go, there are better options (I've just never seen the point - they fold in combat to everything but War Machine crews, who they can generally beat anyway, and they simply don't have the weight of attacks to make Poison pay off).

What gear has the Sorceror Lord got? I'd give him a Chaos Familiar and Enchanted Shield, 300pts. No Ward is sucky, but 2+ armour's fairly reasonable.
 
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