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Warlord of Vermin
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hey all, im wanting your thoughts on how you deal with droves of your models dying during games.

this mainly applies to horde armies - tonnes of cheap troops

now I know your probably thinking "are you fucking serious?" and yes im serious. to be more specific as to what I mean; im talking about sitting there painting your models for hours at a time. spending all this time, money and effort into them and when they get their boots on the battlefield they just die super easy. I myself don't really get affected by it but my brother and my friend is having these problems. my brother plays the goblins in the hobbit and the dwarves just rip through em and he puts all this time into them and they just die in front of him and he cant handle it. and I don't know what to say to him. also my friend plays imperial guard so he has about 50 guardsman that my orks just rip through

when my orks get cut down by fire I don't really get depressed and think the game is over, but they do. they feel like the game is finished as soon as they loose a unit. now I have felt like this sometimes. I get irritated whenever a great deal of my boys get mowed but that's the game, and there's more where that came from, also I play skaven and moria goblins so im used to it. but my brother plays ultramarines, minas tirith, high elves and tomb kings - so he is mostly used to his units rarely dying however whenever he plays his tomb kings or hobbit goblins he just cant handle it

I don't know how to get him to not loose it whenever his cheap, disposable and weak units die.

so how do you guys deal with your troops mowed down in droves?

thanks

Tech
 

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thats what squishys are for to die in droves. the way to make use of them is have them distract the foe why the harder hitting guys lay down the hurt. they also make good sheilds for command units or sorcerers who can take a few hits but shouldnt. now if their forces are made up of nothing but squish then perhaps they need to pump up their armies with non squish and of course dont forget metal boxes save lives.

now as to the psychological part of this part of what may be getting them down is the fact that they might have all their hopes on the squishies doing good in battle and being a force to be feared, which if things are done right could happen but the other problem is they may not understand how a horde army works. You play orks so you know how horde based armies work. the others might be trying to run hordes like Ultra Marines which wont work and that could be causing all the stress.
 

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A. If he can't wrap his head around the terms 'expendable' 'cannon fodder' and, in your friend's case 'buy more tanks' then i suggest you buy their horde armies from them and get them to take up a deathwing army or similar.

B. Unsure of hobbit rules, but perhaps a less competitive mindset is needed for it. Asking to play for more 'cinematic' effects, swap sides every few games or try 'face offs' where he pits x number of minions against one dwarf so that he gets an idea of how to field them and what ratios are appropriate.

C. For your guard friend, i recommend either mechanising with 3-5 chimeras and a demolisher or buyimg a defence line (wall of martyrs or aegis), fielding a combined squad of 20-30 with a commissar and using his go to ground relieving 'get back in the fight' order to boost his cover save in your shooting and then get back up and shoot in his. As to attitude... well, perhaps get him to watch some miniwargaming or skari videos and maybe their awesome attitude will rub off on him?

Losing a lot of models at once can be disheartening, but they should be learning from it and adapting their tactics each time to stop it happening. Maybe if you support them and encourage them to do that, their mindset will prove?
 

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Honestly I'd tell them to man up and figure out what they are doing wrong. This really seems like it's a case of them not understanding their armies.
 

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You can't win a battle in 40k without casualties.

Armies like tyranids and orks especially. It's not a case of keeping your units alive, it's a case of making sure the right ones die to protect the valuable ones.
 

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like others have said, they just need to understand that parts of your armies are going to die, especially when you play cannon fodder armies. even my dark eldar die constantly when i play due to squishies. but its about how you use those squishies that matters.
 

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How old are they?
Honestly, it sounds like they should learn a bit about how their armies function on the battlefield. If they don't like to put all that time into painting many models that sees one or Two turns, then play deathwing, or nurgle CSM or wraitheldar. They seem to think that any game that they won 10-0 is a disapointment. I'd tell them to man up and reach them that dying is wat boyz and guardsmen are there for! Winning games is what the big boyz, tanks do.
 

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ok guys be fair here, it's a bit hard to get into the mindset of attrition warfare.

Psychologically, yes I get what it means to paint all you guys up lovingly and just having them wiped off the board in droves to what feels like no effect. IT's why I hate deathstars with a passion that the Rebel alliance would find commendable. But instead try to focus on the good.

instead of thinking, "Damn it I lost a guardsquad I spent the better part of two hours converting and painting to a space marine squad" think, "oh no he shot a single guard squad when there's five more behind it, he just tried to command the tide he he he."

Additionally, I would not think to spend a lot of time actually painting a unit that is going to get destroyed the second anything more threatening then a house cat looks at it. You don't see any Skaven Slave units taking home the Golden Daemons. Treat your cannon fodder as just that, fodder and glue them then paint them as fast possible to limit the emotion attachment to your models so you don't feel anything when there slain in droves. Save your converting work for smaller elite units like Storm Troopers or Marines.

Hope that helps.
 

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Herald of The Warp
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they feel like the game is finished as soon as they loose a unit
I know players like these, so I can relate. First and foremost I agree completely with Iraqiel on this statement:

If he can't wrap his head around the terms 'expendable' 'cannon fodder' and, in your friend's case 'buy more tanks' then i suggest you buy their horde armies from them and get them to take up a deathwing army or similar.
Playing horde armies requires a certain mentality. The same is for elite armies like Grey Knights. With a mentality like that, I would question if they picked up the right army for their playing mentality - It seems to me they value each model too much on the playing field, so guiding them towards a army where that value is well put might be a better scenario.

I hope you find a solution!
 

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Warlord of Vermin
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
well first of all thanks to all for replying

my brother is 12 and brand new to horde armies and my friend who plays guard is 17

I understand now that I have to tell them to get used to cannon fodder being cannon fodder

my brothers horde armies are quite small at this stage so he doesn't really have anything hard hitting.

my friend has a leman russ, two chimeras, a Valkyrie, two sentinals and an eradicator so he isn't short on vehicles. its just that I nail them pretty quickly and he ends up hiding 80% of his army behind cover and doesn't move at all during the game because he is afraid of loosing his guys

I guess they are just gonna have to learn with time, they just arnt used to their armies playstyle yet
 

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Hmmm if he is losing all that stuff so fast, check he understands the rules - no leman russ should die turn 1 without some poor rolling or a super tank hunter in opposition. If he's a member, i'm happy to talk to him about tactics.
 

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It's an un-written rule that any unit that has had time, effort and love spent converting and painting them will die horribly within the first two turns.
 

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It's an un-written rule that any unit that has had time, effort and love spent converting and painting them will die horribly within the first two turns.
nope: that rules was written down by Murphy a long time ago.
 

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Yeah he needs to find some good cover if he wants them to stay alive. Otherwise he could be a lord of cheese and buy himself a few voidshield generators and protect his stuff from any shooting you do with a big bubble of armour to stop you nuking his vehicles so quickly from range. Combine this with the pipe relays and a load of flame throwers and he could torrent those Orcs before they get to him and still flame them as the charge. Orks don't tend to like flame throwers :p
 

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Also maybe direct them to places that give tutorials on how to speed paint - things like goblins and guard in particular are laughably easy to batch paint - pick a block colour for the clothes, pick out skin and weapons, and then wash with Seraphim Sepia/Nuln Oil. Done. It won't win you any competitions, but it gets them ready for the tabletop and if you painted that unit of 30 guys in 30 minutes (I exaggerate) then you'll feel a lot less emotion when scooping them up than if you spend 2 weeks on them. Also if they can find the models cheaper in places like Ebay rather than buying them directly from GW then that might help them to place less mental value on them.
 
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