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Discussion Starter #1
I am having a big escalation match with a good friend of mine in the middle of February when both of us have a week off from school, so I wanted get some good advice from my fellow chaos players. He plays as Imperial Guard, and I know he is going to be allying with Dark Angels in this matchup. I haven't lost to him in a regular 40K game, but I'm very confident he is going to be using the shadow sword for our a match, and I am admittedly uneasy about how I will do against a strength D weapon. I also won't be using a lord of war either. The other units he uses to his joy are his 2 vendettas and 1 vulture (with TL punisher cannon).

As for myself I'm using Daemon allies and I have access to a lot of Daemon Princes, fateweaver, lord of change, Daemonettes, and plaguebearers.

I have most of the CSM codex at my disposal, so I have a lot of flexibility (only have 2 heldrakes though so can't spam those haha). I'm not looking for anyone to come and just make a list obviously, but I'd love some advice and suggestions from my betters in this scenario. Thanks in advance.
 

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Warsmith
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MUS of Oblits. @ 3500pts you can run two force orgs. So you can afford 3 or 4 squads of Oblits, if you take huron you can infiltrate them and with luck get some hits on their shadow sword.

Thats one Idea that hit me when thinking about how I would take out shadow swords myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
MUS of Oblits. @ 3500pts you can run two force orgs. So you can afford 3 or 4 squads of Oblits, if you take huron you can infiltrate them and with luck get some hits on their shadow sword.

Thats one Idea that hit me when thinking about how I would take out shadow swords myself.
Sorry I'm not familiar with MUS. But I actually think that might work very well especially if I get to go first since I'm pretty sure he has not idea I have access to that. Thanks for that. I was thinking to use Plaguemarines as my main troop choice for the survivability think it's too expensive or go with it?
 

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Sorry I'm not familiar with MUS. But I actually think that might work very well especially if I get to go first since I'm pretty sure he has not idea I have access to that. Thanks for that. I was thinking to use Plaguemarines as my main troop choice for the survivability think it's too expensive or go with it?
I Should have said MSU. Multiple small units.

If he is takeing a Lord of War, you have a better chance of geting the jump on him. I would also make sure the other Hevey slots pack a punch, may be havoc's inside some fortifications?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I Should have said MSU. Multiple small units.

If he is takeing a Lord of War, you have a better chance of geting the jump on him. I would also make sure the other Hevey slots pack a punch, may be havoc's inside some fortifications?
ahhh ok. Yeah I usually go with 3 groups of 2x MoN obliterators, so I'll stick with that. He always expects me to deep strike him so I imagine he is going to camp in the corner with the shadowsword ande bubble wrap it with either a lot of infantry or a couple of basilisks so I'm not too sure how well infiltrate will do either, but I would be able to get most of his leman russes I imagine.
 

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Warsmith
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ahhh ok. Yeah I usually go with 3 groups of 2x MoN obliterators, so I'll stick with that. He always expects me to deep strike him so I imagine he is going to camp in the corner with the shadowsword ande bubble wrap it with either a lot of infantry or a couple of basilisks so I'm not too sure how well infiltrate will do either, but I would be able to get most of his leman russes I imagine.
I that case I would pull together a allies from this list, and have the fun of droping a huge blast on top of it every turn!.

That should help break up the castle.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I that case I would pull together a allies from this list, and have the fun of droping a huge blast on top of it every turn!.

That should help break up the castle.
That would be a lot of fun with the artillery strikes haha, but honestly I don`t think he`d let me play with this, as he`s already pissed off about the fact that I pretty much have access to Imperial Guard units haha. It's a great suggestion but I think I'd rather beat him without he using rules/models that he may complain about later down the road, thanks though :)
 

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Warsmith
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That would be a lot of fun with the artillery strikes haha, but honestly I don`t think he`d let me play with this, as he`s already pissed off about the fact that I pretty much have access to Imperial Guard units haha. It's a great suggestion but I think I'd rather beat him without he using rules/models that he may complain about later down the road, thanks though :)
He is using a D-Weapon.

Kinda opens the door for all types of Shenanigans in my book.
 

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He is using a D-Weapon.

Kinda opens the door for all types of Shenanigans in my book.
Agreed. I would take anything you can to deal with the Shadowsword, and as much bullshit as you can cram in your list. 4 helldrakes sounds fine in this instance :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Agreed. I would take anything you can to deal with the Shadowsword, and as much bullshit as you can cram in your list. 4 helldrakes sounds fine in this instance :wink:
I wish I had 4 heldrakes haha. I was thinking of using 2 allied detachments and using it for a flying circus loadout. Here's what I have so far as a general idea.

Primary Detachment 1-

HQ

Be'lakor
Huron Blackheart

Troops

10x cultists
10x cultists

Fast Attack

Heldrake
Heldrake

Heavy Support

2x Obliterators MoT
2x Obliterators MoT
2x Obliterators MoT

(I chose Tzeentch Oblits over Nurgle, because I expect them to run into more heavy weapons than small arms fire)

Primary Detachment 2

HQ

Chaos Lord
-MoN
-Sigil of Corruption

Troops

11x Plague Marines
-2 Meltas

11x Plague Marines
-2 Meltas

Chaos Daemons Allies 1

HQ

Daemon Prince
-Daemon of Slaanesh
-2x Greater Rewards (including lash of Despair for Anti Air)
-ML 3
-Warp Armor
-Flight

Troops

20x Daemonettes

Allied Detachment 2

HQ

Lord of change
-ML 3
-2x Greater Rewards
-Lesser Reward (Staff of change)

Troops

20x Daemonettes

Heavy Support

Daemon Prince
-Daemon of Tzeentch
-Flight
-warp armor
-exalted reward (grimore)
-greater reward
-ML 3
 

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If you're using Daemons as allies then perhaps Screamers are a nice addition? They are fast and make short work of heavy-armoured vehicles but are not so expensive you'll feel bad when they get blown to smithereens. You could go for a Screamerstar as it's a surefied way to make your friends blood boil when you've dealt with his Superheavy:grin:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If you're using Daemons as allies then perhaps Screamers are a nice addition? They are fast and make short work of heavy-armoured vehicles but are not so expensive you'll feel bad when they get blown to smithereens. You could go for a Screamerstar as it's a surefied way to make your friends blood boil when you've dealt with his Superheavy:grin:
hey ryu, yeah I would definitely include it, unfortunately I don't own the models :( and most likely won't by game day, but always good to hear ur suggestions dude :D
 

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I wish I had 4 heldrakes haha. I was thinking of using 2 allied detachments and using it for a flying circus loadout. Here's what I have so far as a general idea.

Primary Detachment 1-

HQ

Be'lakor
Huron Blackheart

Troops

10x cultists
10x cultists

Fast Attack

Heldrake
Heldrake

Heavy Support

2x Obliterators MoT
2x Obliterators MoT
2x Obliterators MoT

(I chose Tzeentch Oblits over Nurgle, because I expect them to run into more heavy weapons than small arms fire)

Primary Detachment 2

HQ

Chaos Lord
-MoN
-Sigil of Corruption

Troops

11x Plague Marines
-2 Meltas

11x Plague Marines
-2 Meltas

Chaos Daemons Allies 1

HQ

Daemon Prince
-Daemon of Slaanesh
-2x Greater Rewards (including lash of Despair for Anti Air)
-ML 3
-Warp Armor
-Flight

Troops

20x Daemonettes

Allied Detachment 2

HQ

Lord of change
-ML 3
-2x Greater Rewards
-Lesser Reward (Staff of change)

Troops

20x Daemonettes

Heavy Support

Daemon Prince
-Daemon of Tzeentch
-Flight
-warp armor
-exalted reward (grimore)
-greater reward
-ML 3
This looks pretty darn scary imo:grin: I'm not a 100% sure as to what you'll be using the Grimoire for though.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
This looks pretty darn scary imo:grin: I'm not a 100% sure as to what you'll be using the Grimoire for though.
Thanks haha. My friend despises Be'lakor lol, so it will be to protect him starting turn 2 when the vendettas/vulture come in, turn 1 it will be for a group of Daemonettes as they run up, as I know they will be bombarded with barrage weapons.

The plan is to infilitrate the plague marines and stay in cover, the fact that they will already been on his side of the board is something he won't see coming from past experience. The Daemonettes will move up in formation as to minimize blast weapons, with the flyers overhead buffing themselves only minimally turn 1, as the only thing that would threaten them this turn is his quad gun. The cultists stay at the back in cover looking pretty until later for when they will go for home objectives. The FMC's will hopefully always be behind cover incase of grounding tests, but once his 3 fliers are on the field, i plan to use the lash prince to destroy the vulture quickly with a vector strike and lash hitting his rear armor (hopefully he will be buffed with iron arm). The tzeentch prince will do the same with flickering fire, but will be buffed with prescience from the lord of change. I want be'lakor safe to use puppet master on one of the vendetta's which will be stocked with 3 TL lascannons on one of his other fliers, and hopefully reducing the need to use one of my own. If all goes well, turn 3 their shouldn't be any fliers, and my heldrakes can go unchallenged and burn things up.
 

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Thanks haha. My friend despises Be'lakor lol, so it will be to protect him starting turn 2 when the vendettas/vulture come in, turn 1 it will be for a group of Daemonettes as they run up, as I know they will be bombarded with barrage weapons.

The plan is to infilitrate the plague marines and stay in cover, the fact that they will already been on his side of the board is something he won't see coming from past experience. The Daemonettes will move up in formation as to minimize blast weapons, with the flyers overhead buffing themselves only minimally turn 1, as the only thing that would threaten them this turn is his quad gun. The cultists stay at the back in cover looking pretty until later for when they will go for home objectives. The FMC's will hopefully always be behind cover incase of grounding tests, but once his 3 fliers are on the field, i plan to use the lash prince to destroy the vulture quickly with a vector strike and lash hitting his rear armor (hopefully he will be buffed with iron arm). The tzeentch prince will do the same with flickering fire, but will be buffed with prescience from the lord of change. I want be'lakor safe to use puppet master on one of the vendetta's which will be stocked with 3 TL lascannons on one of his other fliers, and hopefully reducing the need to use one of my own. If all goes well, turn 3 their shouldn't be any fliers, and my heldrakes can go unchallenged and burn things up.
You absolutely sure you don't want to puppet master that nice shiny Shadowsword of his and blow his own army back to kublin kahn?^^
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You absolutely sure you don't want to puppet master that nice shiny Shadowsword of his and blow his own army back to kublin kahn?^^
oh I'll definitely do that once his fliers are out of the way haha. Those first few turns he's going to turtle shell that thing in the corner mainly because he knows puppet master wants that shadowsword lol
 

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Warsmith
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I wish I had 4 heldrakes haha. I was thinking of using 2 allied detachments and using it for a flying circus loadout. Here's what I have so far as a general idea.

Primary Detachment 1-

HQ

Be'lakor
Huron Blackheart

I still havent seen the rules for Bel'lakor, but I have been told he is ace. Huron for his trick for the oblits is fun. But I would try and find another unit to hide him with some chosen or something, if thats all you are using Huron for.. with the list as it is it could be worth running Ahriman

Troops

10x cultists
10x cultists

Not sure about the blocks of plain Cultists, I would look at geting some fortifcations fr them to man? Maybe roll them into one squad and add some marines for Huron/Ahriman


Fast Attack

Heldrake
Heldrake

Say no more, looks good to me

Heavy Support

2x Obliterators MoT
2x Obliterators MoT
2x Obliterators MoT

(I chose Tzeentch Oblits over Nurgle, because I expect them to run into more heavy weapons than small arms fire)

As you can pull off the 2++ trick with them, it may be worth trying to run a squad of 3?

Primary Detachment 2

HQ

Chaos Lord
-MoN
-Sigil of Corruption

Troops

11x Plague Marines
-2 Meltas

11x Plague Marines
-2 Meltas

I would spilt the squads into 3 groups, one of 8 and two of 7, gives you more options to bring more Meltas.

Chaos Daemons Allies 1

HQ

Daemon Prince
-Daemon of Slaanesh
-2x Greater Rewards (including lash of Despair for Anti Air)
-ML 3
-Warp Armor
-Flight

Troops

20x Daemonettes

Allied Detachment 2

HQ

Lord of change
-ML 3
-2x Greater Rewards
-Lesser Reward (Staff of change)

Troops

20x Daemonettes

Heavy Support

Daemon Prince
-Daemon of Tzeentch
-Flight
-warp armor
-exalted reward (grimore)
-greater reward
-ML 3
The Daemons look fine, haven't got down the finer points of their use just yet!
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
The Daemons look fine, haven't got down the finer points of their use just yet!
Thanks for the assement, just a couple comments to let you know what I was thinking.

The two group of cultists were the cheapest way of getting the 2 troop requirements in the first primary detachment (although if I split the PM into groups of 3, I can get rid of one of these).

I keep going back and forth on the obliterators, but I think keeping at them at 3 groups of 2, will give him more targets, and gives me a better chance for that perfect deep strike.

Just want your thought on the plague marines squads before I split them up. I was hoping to get the 2 units to infiltrate using Huron's warlord trait, unless i get unlucky enough to only get 1 unit to infiltrate. Anyway if I split them up to 3, I was just worried about getting the groups to the enemy zone while avoiding D pie plates, without a rhino. They are slow and purposeful, so that's a problem. What do you think? Or is infiltrating the obliterators (2 groups of 3) just a generally better idea than infiltrating PM's?
 
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