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Discussion Starter #1
I played a games against Necron last Friday and even though i am used to taking care of wraights with my IG, doing with with my CSM and Daemon allies was different...I am very new to daemons so i brought only

10 plaguebearers with Herald
3 plague drones.

even though i had plague marines, that was not enough to stop 6 wraights and a lord...so i was thinking and that taking

2 squads of 10 Seekers of Slaanesh could put them down rather effectively, would i be right? With their flank attack and their fast movement, they could get them and with so many attacks and rending, i could put them down...

What do you think? What is the best way to put wraights down with daemons?

tks
 

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Necron wraiths like u said u need number of attacks for.

A csm daemon prince with black mace would do well cos of the extra d6 attacks and the toughness test.

For daemons a Nurgle daemon prince with balesword would be alright cos of rerolls to wound and instant death.

Otherwise a slaaneshi herald on steed with seekers would do it with number of attacks and outflanking.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Necron wraiths like u said u need number of attacks for.

A csm daemon prince with black mace would do well cos of the extra d6 attacks and the toughness test.

For daemons a Nurgle daemon prince with balesword would be alright cos of rerolls to wound and instant death.

Otherwise a slaaneshi herald on steed with seekers would do it with number of attacks and outflanking.

A fear a Chaos Daemon prince will not do anything...first it is wat to expensive and cannot take care of 6 wraiths on it own...and if he has a Necron destroyer lord, that stupid challenge rule will take him out of the main fight....

I was suggesting 2 squad of 10 seekers of slaanesh simply because on the charge they can generate 40 attacks per squads with rending, so we are talking 80 attacks...all of that for 240 points while 6 wraights are 210 point if they have no upgrades....even if there is a Destroyer lord the squad will get a lot of wounds....

Like i said, i am not a daemon player but to attack wraights you need a lot of wounds....i think seekers are probably the best way to go about it...

maybe hounds too, i don't know....
 

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Under no circumstances should you charge Wraiths with Daemon Princes. You'll get tied down, mindshackled and rended to death forcing instability checks. They don't have enough attacks to get through the 3++.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Under no circumstances should you charge Wraiths with Daemon Princes. You'll get tied down, mindshackled and rended to death forcing instability checks. They don't have enough attacks to get through the 3++.
amen to that....wraights need to be put down by tons of shooting or attacks....add tot that their coils, you need a lot of models to overload them with attacks...now my question is what models are best suited for the job in the daemon army...??
 

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I've not had problems charging wraiths with d princes at all. Daemon prince doesn't have to challenge he doesn't have the chaos champion rule. And with black mace and charging he has 10 attacks average with fleshbane and only one wound needed to cause average a third of the wraiths to be instantly killed no saves allowed?
 

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Wraith coils only effect models in base to base (so do shackles) so numbers are your friends here any large unit will work I find deamonettes or bloodletters in units 10-15 with boss to work and even if there not dead in first round you won't be shot in the second.
Plus 6 wraiths plus dlord is getting on to 400+ points thats 40 letters or nearly 45 netties that's a lot of attacks. I can't say on nurgle as I dont use any, on tge CSM front lots of fire from bolters works well the unit is only t4 till there's one left +lord so torrent of fire works.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I've not had problems charging wraiths with d princes at all. Daemon prince doesn't have to challenge he doesn't have the chaos champion rule. And with black mace and charging he has 10 attacks average with fleshbane and only one wound needed to cause average a third of the wraiths to be instantly killed no saves allowed?
I am not saying it cannot be done but it is risky...

First, if they have whip coil, they will reduce your initiative (unless i got it all wrong) and they will hit first... so six wraight and a destroyer lord will simply murder your Daemon prince...
 

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the whip coils are annoying but tbh they have never totally killed me, and my strike back hurts liek hell. and liek above said 6 wraiths and a lord is alot of points, even compaired to a daemon prince. it is a suggestion based on my experience with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
the whip coils are annoying but tbh they have never totally killed me, and my strike back hurts liek hell. and liek above said 6 wraiths and a lord is alot of points, even compaired to a daemon prince. it is a suggestion based on my experience with them.
Don't get me wrong, i do appreciate your input a lot, i have been running a test with 2 squads of 10 seekers and they don't do that much damage being WS3 and S3...you need 4 to hits and 5 to wounds....

So I have been also testing with hounds and they were much better to be honest they hit much harder and they have two wounds each...

after that i tested with your daemon prince and 10 hounds and that seemed to be a really good mix...

the prince can usually kill at least two wraights and the hounds on the charge can easily put an average of 8 unsaved wounds...all of that before the wraights can even strike...of course you need to take into accounts the coils but i can always send a little bit more hounds in the fight to make sure it compensate....

that seems to be a good mix...what do you think?

I am glad i tested it before buying, because seekers performed a lot worse than i anticipated...i was blinded by the flanking abilities...
 

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Seekers have tons of attacks but really the outflanking isnt that good now they cant assault from reserve. they primary role (IMO) is to tie up TEQ very early on/counter charge TEQ. throwing them into medium toughness units neither takes advantage of their speed or their rending, ofcourse if u happen to run into one of those new wraithknights with t8 then they will perform well.
As long as u surround all but one wraith with hounds and leave one so ur daemon prince can actually charge into base contact, so he actually counts as in combat, once he has killed that one wraith the hounds should keep him from being I1, leaving him to blast apart lots of wraiths using his high I.
 

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Good advice given all round! Wraiths are not invincible, you just need to exploit their weaknesses. The easiest way is to outnumber them. Plaguebearers with a herald with fecundity is a very nice way to tarpit. You still get feel no pain as they are str 6, you have poisoned so can re-roll your failed to wound (not against the DLord though) and you can field quite a large blob of them. Backed up by a Tzeentch heralds divination (re-rolls to hit or make wraiths re-roll successful saves) and they become even nastier. But just my thoughts.

Couple of odd points duskan:
Daemon DP can't take the mace, unless you meant get an allies detachment. If that was the case my apologies.

Seekers would not be able to wound the wraith knight. Str 3 cannot wound models of T7 or higher. Make slaanesh vs GUOs quite entertaining.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Good advice given all round! Wraiths are not invincible, you just need to exploit their weaknesses. The easiest way is to outnumber them. Plaguebearers with a herald with fecundity is a very nice way to tarpit. You still get feel no pain as they are str 6, you have poisoned so can re-roll your failed to wound (not against the DLord though) and you can field quite a large blob of them. Backed up by a Tzeentch heralds divination (re-rolls to hit or make wraiths re-roll successful saves) and they become even nastier. But just my thoughts.
Also a very good advice, i love plaguebearers, the only problem i can see is you cannot decide when or where the attack will be since they are much slower than wraights...but nonetheless, I am still planning on using them, they are though as hell....

I have continued my test yesterday and adding Karanak to a pack of 10 hounds makes wonders...if i combine that with your adive for aTzentch herald with divination, that could get ugly quite fast..:grin:

You guys rock...this is all very good advice and you saved me a bunch of money...i was gonna buy at least 15 seekers, now i am gonna buy hounds and probably Karanak...unless anyone has a strong objection against Karanak??
 

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Slaanesh does work with rending (auto wound on a 6) and I'd never put a DP against any unit with a d lord in it as the DP is a character so HQ's to accept the challenge or not fight as a wraith unit don't have a sarge.
 

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At clown: he mentioned csm detachment so yes I ment csm. and rending hello? Lol.

karanak is awesome. He works really well with bloodletters actually since he shares his rage locus and collar.

Mindshackle scarabs screw everyone not just daemon princes. But yes u wouldn't charge a lord with one with scarabs with a Daemon prince by itself. Ur prince should be smashing rear armour on their vehicles not pinned down by lords in a challenge, but if karanak is there then accept with him and let ur prince run wild.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Sounds like a good plan...

You guy rock, plenty of good advices..

I have noticed that the tzentch sorcerer comes up because of it's ability to take prescience (Which could further improve my army)...how do you daemon players use that..are you mostly taking the Lord of change or simply a herald on disc???

The lord of change on one side is very expensive in points and the herald needs protection because he seems very fragile...

I have also seen the grimoire mentionned a few times which looks amazing but when looking through the codex, i can see its effects but not it's cost in points??? Does all HQ can take the grimoire?

Tks for the help, i know i ask a lot of questions...My meta is very competitive and i like being able to respond
 

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@Duskan
My apologies on the first point, I missed that!
And rechecked the rending rule, apologies again. I thought it just made the attack count as AP2, but also auto wounds, fine! Ignore my pratterings, not thinking straight.

In a big enough horde you should be able to get a few models in at the same time as the wraiths though (depending of course how many whip coils they have).

Tzeentch Heralds are best cheap as possible I find. But depends on the role you want. They can make soul grinders shooting slightly more accurate or make horrors shooting even scarier with str 6 and re-rolls. Just don't get them anywhere near combat, they are just a horror after all.
Lords of change can be very nasty this edition, but I have yet to field one so can't really offer you anything here. They are expensive, but for what you get, it ain't that bad.

Grimore is a hellforged artefact, which can be used if you swap out an exalted reward (30pts).

Pg67:
0 Hellforged Artefact, the daemon has a Hellforged Artefact of your choice

All but the named HQ units can take it. Its great...when it works for you. Sadly I have terrible rolling syndrome when it comes to my daemons.
 

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Taking a Tzeentch ally is pretty competitive if ur running forgefiends with their dakka guns as u can actually get rerolls to hit and activate daemon forge for refills to wound or pen too. I normally take a herald in a unit of 16 horrors due to points restrictions and give heral lv2 and locus of conjuration so ur horrors actually provide some aa to the list with 4d6 str 6 shots. With twinlinked if u decide to use prescience on them instead.

A lord of change works too with as from flying and posible other psychic goodness. But u are limited in range if he is flying about.

The grimoire is an artifact that u get access to by buying an exalted gift for a daemon as the default option. And it works on all daemons so ur csm forgefiends and heldrakes and oblige and warptalons all can benefit from this too. 3++ warptalons makes me want to cry...
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Tks for the info guys...All good things to consider...

The grimoire is an artifact that u get access to by buying an exalted gift for a daemon as the default option. And it works on all daemons so ur csm forgefiends and heldrakes and oblige and warptalons all can benefit from this too. 3++ warptalons makes me want to cry...
You are probably the first one I hear saying something positive about the Warp Talons...I have never used them but i do have a squad, the models are awesome...
 
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