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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As the title says. Gonna be playing a 1500 point game on Friday evening, my Blood Angels vs Dark Angels. Against my friend, who I've not played yet myself, but seen him play and know he just loves his Ravenwing bikes, speeders and Sammael. He abuses the living shit out of jink, so he's almost permanently got that cover save on the go, and he seems to be extraordinarily lucky with his rolling on the snap shots. Even then though, the main concern is if he gets first turn, he's going to do his usual trick of just powering them straight up the field and unloading melta into any vehicles I might bring or into my tastiest unit, ie. Death Company.

He's also fond of taking Belial, in a Terminator/Deathknight squad, down on either turn 1/2 (usually 1), with that pinpoint deepstrike crazyness the guy has, and unloading right into the meat of your army, soaking up the punishment of shooting with the 2+/5++ (likes to bring storm shields a lot, so 3++ even) and then get stuck into combat the turn after.

So yeah, advice would be good.

Ps. I like assassins. A lot.
 

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What sort of BA list do you usually play? Give me an idea of what models you have and I'll see what I can come up with. Usually I play these armies as allies, so I'm pretty familiar with their strengths and weaknesses.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What sort of BA list do you usually play? Give me an idea of what models you have and I'll see what I can come up with. Usually I play these armies as allies, so I'm pretty familiar with their strengths and weaknesses.
You know, I was hoping you would see this ^^

I've got quite a range of models. Mostly all the things you would expect apart from fliers and land raiders. I've almost always got a hefty Death Company squad, which I know he's gonna be expecting, so leaving them out might throw him off, but I like using them so damn much.

Also got Vindicare and Celexus assassins. Got a sneaky feeling he's going to be bringing Ezekiel, but not confirmed. Was thinking the Vindicare to try and take down the ever present jinking models.

Usual list though tends to be quite assaulty, with DC supported by others and scout snipers back in support. Don't know how well this will fair against his Ravenwing heavy army though.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Land Raider Redeemer might be nice, for cover-ignoring AP3 templates to roast bikers. A solid base of grav and plasma, seeded at multiple points throughout the list, should be able to do a number on some Termis... maybe a drop-podding squad that has access to several special/combi weapons (command squad, RAS, sternguard, whatever), so that if he gets first turn, your beta strike isn't on the board yet, so can pinpoint itself safely in to counter.

I know that SM armies don't have much in the way of cheap, body-heavy units, but you might want to consider some large Scout squads as bubble-wrap to keep enemy units from getting close enough to your vehicles as to pop them. Well, that or ally in some Astra Militarum for cheap-as-all-hell bodies.

If you want to plain beat the Wings in close combat, you need 2 things: mobility and raw prowess. Have you considered Dante+Sang Guard and/or Astorath+Death Company? Important to keep them a bit back and use those scout squads or tac squads as bait, then counter-bounce out to wreak some havoc.
 

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as mossy said really.

in addition, if he is really happy about meltas, then not using any armour, is quite a hick-up for him.

ofc he can then kill other things with it, but its not as fun to kill a 14 points marine as a 250 points landraider.

abit like the pure infantry IG armies
 

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OK, I'm finally at my computer. Yikes to this day.

When it comes to weapons that ignore cover and 3+ armour saves as well, we have the Redeemer (as Mossy pointed out), the Baal Predator, the Furioso's Frag Cannon (on 6's anyway), and...well, that's fucking it. I feel like the LRR will be outrun or popped by Grav/Melta before getting into range, and you said you don't have Land Raider models. The Baal can keep up, but is pretty easy to pop. I would be tempted to run the flamer cannon and HB sponsons and use Rhinos full of Tactical marines to cover/support them. Throwing a ton of bolter fire into a Jinking squad can be just as effective as Ignores Cover (says the guy with a Deathwing army and a propensity to roll 1's). The third option I mentioned is a slow as fuck model that gets one chance to run a bike squad into the ground and then they either blow it up or run away. Drop Pods are key to its success, but if you're facing a fast army only your opponent making bad decisions will make this option worth taking.

Ultimately I would look into Baals with Flamestorm/HB combos shielded by Rhinos full of marines or completely give up on Ignores Cover and do what BA are made to do: get into CC and bite out some throats.

As Mossy suggested, a big DC squad with Astorath is key here. I like Dante and Sanguinary Guard (even more now at this new price point) but I still think DC are the better option. I'll take 3+/5+ FnP over 2+ armour all day. Jump Troops will keep up with Bikes, and since they're able to take 10 models per unit you'll usually have enough dudes left on the charge that you'll be wiping out squads anyway. Even three DC on the Charge with Astorath can put a hurt on a squad with 15 attacks re rolling to-hit and to-wound. Taking a big squad of DC and a couple big Assault squads is key, and I only play the Baal Strike Force these days. A lot of marines in my gaming group and getting that +1 Initiative on the charge is god damned crucial to winning sometimes. Plus, army wide Furious Charge helps with T5 bikes. A Priest in a 10 man Assault squad and Astorath with 10 DC are two units a bike army would friggin' hate in my books.

As for Assassins, let me start by saying that when I was a kid there was a Codex: Assassins and I fucking loved it. Now I am an adult and it is back, and I fucking love it even more. I have little to no interest in Psyker battles, and if your opponent is only taking -one- ML3 Psyker you'll either have enough dice from the general WC pool to deny a crucial power or he won't have enough dice to get anything real done. If you were facing Daemons or GK I'd say Culexus all day, but in this instance you're spending too much to negate one character that could kite your assassin no problem. The Vindicare is my absolute favourite out of all things ever (within 40k, sex is definitely better than a Vindicare assassin). I typically use him as a vehicle hunter, S10 AP2 Ignores Cover hits on a 2+/4+ is friggin' BRUTAL for most vehicles. Against a bike army...you're looking at one model per turn for 5 turns based on LoS. Turbo-Penetrator would be tempting against Sammael, but I've never been able to figure out if it causes D3 wounds before or after the armour save has been made. The Eversor is the page I tend to skip over....but the Callidus. Here's a model that you can put next to any unit in the game to hit with an AP2 template right away. If they're Bikes they can likely just run away the following movement phase, much like the problem with the Furiosos, but she has a lot of potential for ruining days and I use her frequently as a disruption unit.

As for Belial...fuck that guy when he's not in my army. You play BA. Drive your Fast vehicles or Jump away from his non-shooting super slow unit and enjoy making him waste ~400 points scoring an objective (and even that depends on the mission).

Hope you find some of these ramblings useful....now lets see the list you wanna run!! :grin:
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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A thought: run a pair of Vindis with Fast Engines. You outrange melta and move as fast as non-Turbo-ing Bikes, so you can kite the enemy and drop AP2 pie plates all day. It doesn't get through the Jink save, but it might put on some pain vs Termis and force Bikers to be less effective after Jinking.
 

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^ I like that, but don't always trust scatter and personally know how to space my models to avoid the most extreme damage (after losing many marines to Guard armies). Fast Vindis though....they're just so nice!
 

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Fast Vindis though....they're just so nice!
So... gorram... hard... to catch...

*wheezes, bent over, hands on knees*

Yeah, I might have suggested that particular idea for having had to face it down.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Okay. Awesome advice. Made a list or two, feel free to pick them apart, change/alter in accordance. The last one was me just seeing how much I could push two horribly powerful units, cost wise, I doubt it makes for a solid choice.

List 1: 1505

HQ
Astorath - 165

Sanguinary Priest: Jump Pack, Valors Edge - 95

Elites
Death Company x10: Jump Packs, x4 Power Weapons - 290

Troops
Tactical Squad x10 w/Rhino - 185
Tactical Squad x10 w/Rhino - 185

Fast Attack
Assault Squad x10

Heavy Support
Baal Predator: Flamestorm Cannon, Heavy Bolters - 135

Vindicator: Overcharged Engines - 130

Alies
Vindicare Assassin - 150

Obvious problem here is the massive lack of special weapons in any of the squads. But this was just a template, hoping your expertise and knowledge might be able to squeeze something out of it.


List 2: 1506

HQ
Astorath - 165

Elites
Death Company x9: Jump Packs, x4 Power Weapons - 267

Sanguinary Guard x5: Chapter Banner - 190

Troops
Tactical Squad x8: Heavy Flamer - 122

Tactical Squad x8: Lascannon - 132

Heavy Support
Baal Predator: Flamestorm Cannon, Heavy Bolters - 135

Predator: Autocannon, Lascannons, Overcharged Engine - 125

Alies
Vindicare Assassin - 150

So yeah, this list was mainly just to see his face when I drop Astorath AND Dante onto the same board, with units of rape behind them.


Deep striking any of the jump units worth it? I hate landing, having to get shot at for a turn, and hoping he hasn't moved his army out of charge range for the next turn.
 

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I like your first list, if anyone gave you flak about being 5 points over play the Priest with a Lightning Claw and prosper. If you're feeling tight on upgrades, drop the Power Weapons from the DC for a Power Fist instead and spend the 35 (30, since you were over initially) points left over on some goodies. There's nothing worse than having your DC get charged by an AV12/13 walker...the Power Fist is great as insurance against that. I typically play two in my DC at 10 models strong, but that only nets you an extra 10 (5) points.
 

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Vindicare took a cheeky shot on Belial and took a wound off him after he rolled a 1 on 'Look out sir!'
With a -2 modifier to Look Out Sir! rolls he failed that as spectacularly as he could have!
the terminators wouldn't die though and slaughtered my Sanguinary Guard
This doesn't surprise me at all, Sanguinary Guard just aren't that crazy to me. DC over SG all day, every day.

But yeah. Fun times :D
Glad to hear it! I went into the LGS to buy a bunch of models and not only did they sell the box that I had put on hold (or thought that was what was happening anyway) but they cocked up my winnings from a recent tournament for the third week in a row so I would have had to pay full price even if they didn't take the post-it with my name off the box behind the counter and sell it to someone. No third Furioso or 10 man jump DC for me :(

In other news I've found a new LGS that has better prices, more tables, and cooler terrain :biggrin:
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I've eBayed all of my DC and Furiosos so far. Going for mentally cheap on there because of the Tyranid combo box set.
 

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Yeah, I'm a firm believer in eBay. Just so happened to be the BA half of the Baal campaign box for $60 (- much league winnings), just can't beat that deal.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Now a new member registers and posts a thread "need help with DA beating BA," talking about how his opponent suddenly started walking all over him in their games...
 
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