[telemicus]

O.K. On the various forums and FAQ's I've seen the answers to what happens when The Tricksters Stasis Field goes off or JoTWW is used and how (is it we'll be back?) their regeneration ability is effected. What I haven't seen is how GoC is played out if you put a spawn model on the table,GoC is part of a new tactic I've been trying lately and I've not found anyone that has had this come up in a game and the only answer I've gotten so for is "let me get back to you on that." One would think that they'd get the Regen Roll but one never knows.:search:

 

[Doombreed]

I would think since the model doesn't take a "wound" then they would get no "we'll be back" roll and would just be removed from play.

 

[KhainiteAssassin]

Doom breed, the abilities mentioned dont take wounds either and just "remove from play" yet WBB work on them

 

[Flame80010]

@KhainiteAssassin

yes but WBB is only taken to recover wounds (Hence why they lie down after taking a wound)

JOTWW would not allow WBB since they never take a wound and a just reomved from the table (if they arnt on the table they cannot make a WBB roll)

EDIT: GoC works just like JOTWW, the only difference is that its single targeting, and it spawns a unit after

the necron is not wounded so therefor never dies, and therefore cannot attempt a WBB roll (or am i thinking of the different power?)

 

[telemicus]

@KhainiteAssassin

yes but WBB is only taken to recover wounds (Hence why they lie down after taking a wound)

JOTWW would not allow WBB since they never take a wound and a just reomved from the table (if they arnt on the table they cannot make a WBB roll)

EDIT: GoC works just like JOTWW, the only difference is that its single targeting, and it spawns a unit after

the necron is not wounded so therefor never dies, and therefore cannot attempt a WBB roll (or am i thinking of the different power?)

Thats what I thought just wanted to know if I was crazy and yes you have the right power.

Cheersk:

 

[Flame80010]

lol i just thought of this DP (or Sorc) casting GoC on a necron, and the necron just before he Explodes (do they explode?) says "We'll be Back" and the DP (or Sorc) shaking his head and saing "No, You wont!"

 

[KhainiteAssassin]

actually, the Necron Codex, in which I have infront of me, states that WBB could be used on anything that would give Kill points thanks to its annoying wording and which has brought so much pain and annoyance to chaos and wolf players as of late. to quote it:

"Any necron model that is reduced to 0 wounds, or would otherwise be removed as a casuality"

this specific statement is what bothers me the most. if JotwW / Gift only remove from play, necron players demand its as a casuality to get their WBB, or insist that one wouldnt get kill points for removal of said models.

if it was JUST wound based, Necrons would not get a WBB from The last laugh, which states purely: removes models in base contact that fail their roll as a casuality

so, ultimately it comes down to which side interprets the rules better, damn GW and their faulty wording.

 

[Flame80010]

or would otherwise be removed as a casuality

Removed from Table =/= Removed as a Casuality :3

they dont die, they are just taken away form the game (as in thier model is removed) if their model is not on the table at the start of the turn when WBB Rolls are made they cannot make a roll for that model!
hence no WBB roll

yay for me

 

[KhainiteAssassin]

Removed from Table =/= Removed as a Casuality :3

they dont die, they are just taken away form the game (as in thier model is removed) if their model is not on the table at the start of the turn when WBB Rolls are made they cannot make a roll for that model!
hence no WBB roll

yay for me

and thus no kill point. which is the problem. you cant remove the model and have a kill point.

 

[Flame80010]

you dont really need the killpoint though when i have some time ill come back and make my arguement about how you can claim both no WBB AND the Killpoint

 

[KhainiteAssassin]

also, as stated in other threads. being removed from the table over being removed as a casuality would come down to that those models wouldnt count to the phase out, etc.

and you can show arguements all you want, thanks to crappy wording in the english Codex' Necron players can, and will, argue this fact until they win in one way or another

 

[Flame80010]

well i have a few ways of going about it :3

 

[KhainiteAssassin]

well then I cant wait to see your arguements as so I can show you ive tried them already.

 

[Warlock in Training]

Actually I thought GoC does not count as a Kill Point cause they are Removed not killed. Same goes for JoWW. The Spawn counts as a kill point for the opponet. Thus why few play GoC. However I use GoC just to tie up units in CC a turn or add to my assualt. Rarely use it on ICs.

 

[Flame80010]

Alright my first Attempt would be does the BRB define kills points ONLY as units that have been killed? or is it models on the table that Differ from the Original army list (i dont have my rule book on me so i cant say (Stupid being at work T.T))

my second would be that the Necron IS killed, the only reason it is not allowed to take its WBB rule is because it is not on the table or in reserves, so therefore does not exsist in game terms
Still counts as a killpoint, but may not take its save due to not being a legal target of its own rule

Ill think of more later :3

 

[KhainiteAssassin]

the BRB Defines as such

ANNIHILATION
Some battles are fought with only one goal – find
your enemy, crush him utterly and take away his
means to mount further resistance.
Victory Conditions
At the end of the game, each player receives
1 ‘kill point’ for each enemy unit that has been
completely destroyed.
If a character has a retinue, the character and his
unit are worth 1 kill point each.
The player with the highest total of kill points
wins. If the players have the same total, the game
is a tactical draw.

as stated before: Kill points are destroyed units, if you look up the definition of destroyed unit its casualities. so it wouldnt count towards a kill point so I normally give up the kill point to be able to take out that pesky Lord with rez orb / annoying MC that gives me problems otherwise, etc

the sad stupidity of it all is that if you know the language well you should easily see the commonality between alot of things, but the problem is that GW doesnt define enough keywords properly for the confusion on things such as this to be no existant.

 

[Flame80010]

if you look up the definition of destroyed unit its casualities.

were does it say that?
unless that exact statement is in the rulebook (or a statement VERY similar)

a Destoryed unit is a unit that is not on the table at the end of the game (as per my definition)

anyway... if that statement is in the rulebook then thats every possible arguement gone, if not then you can simply say they are removed as a result of the spell, not as a casualty

 

[SHarrington]

I'm confused. Since when does gaining a kill point have anything to do with the word casualty?

I looked at the kill point rules and cannot find that word anywhere in them.


PS: Is there really someone here trying to deny people kill points because of "removed from play"?
Seriously?
I really hope everyone here is just bantering playfully.

Cause if anyone is actually being forthright:
Don't you think thats rather bad sportsmanship and being a bit of a douche bag?
Perhaps it's just me, but if I won a game like that, it would be a hollow victory, and I would know 100% that person would never play me again.
Is a single game worth being labeled your area's "That Fucking Guy"? (TFG)

 

[BucketWalrus]

Just Read the rules for GoC once again and it states

If the D6 roll scores OVER the victim's toughness, the victim is REMOVED AS A CASUALTY

in this case, since necron rules are old and badly worded to our disadvantage. They would get a WBB in the following turn, but then we read the second part

(as no wounds are taken, NO SAVES APPLY)
WBB is like FNP, it can't be used against things that DISALLOW saves, GoC doesn't allow a save (even if there wasn't a wound to save in the first place) AND THUS, NO WBB!

 

[jaws900]

first of all. Neaither actualy take a wound so there is no WBB rolls here. Also it makes sence to do it that way fluff wise.

- Necron swalled into the center of the earth. He ist coming back, not un less he can burrow like the flash.
- Necron turned into a spawn. He doesn't even exisit anymore in his normal state. How can he come back when he turn into something else?