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I actually confess I do not know what the Necrons use to travel through space? Does anyone?

I can only guess that, since they were around at the time of the Elder and the Webway's Creation, that they use a modified version of it that the C'Tan give them access to. Then again their technology to so profoundly confusing and forgiegn even to the rest of Warhammer 40k that they could just as well be using FTL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My guess is that there using something akin to mass effect mass relay which reduces the mass of ships and allow for instantaneous and extremely safe method of travel distances that would take decades if not more with warp travel are done instantly with this. cept necrons don't need giant relays and every ship has em they mastered that tech.

In mass effect the mass relay is better than FTL.
 

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In their old guise the Necrons possessed a form of FTL called inertialess drive which operated independant of warp travel or the webway. It's one of the things that made them so horrifically powerful.

Now though, as Brother Lucian said they use Dolmen Gates. Without which they're limited to the the slow burning torch ships using conventional drives and ironically become the slowest race in interstellar travel.
 

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Hrm, that makes me wonder..

We know about the Emperor's secret project to breach the webway with an access point from Terra within the Imperial Palace. Wouldnt that essentially make it a Dolmen Gate too? Since he was essentially trying to hack into the system.

And we know the Emperor have faced the Cthan in the past, defeating the Dragon and banishing it to Mars. Perhaps he learnt something of their ancient secrets as well. The strange golden metal used in all his special constructions might be inspired by necrodermis.
 

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The Dolmen Gates were inventions of the C'tan who know everything there is to know about the physical/material realm.

The Emperor forced his way into a (possibly dormant Dolmen gate but given the fact that the Emperor used his psychic powers to enter the Webway and the C'tan were anti-anything warp related, it probably wasn't) breach in the Webway using his vast psychic powers via the Golden Throne.
 

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The Dolmen Gates were inventions of the C'tan who know everything there is to know about the physical/material realm.
Given the time frame of the War in Heaven, it seems unlikely that any c'tan would possess the knowledge necessary to hack the webway in the same way as they possess intricate knowledge of how the laws of reality work.

More likely was that Nyadra'Zatha (the c'tan responsible) figured out how the Webway works via some other means and then was able to show the necrons how to make the Dolmen Gates work.


What interests me is how were the necrons able to wage such a war for so long before that? Were they literally just flying from planet to planet via Torch ships and doing their best to wipe out the Old Ones as best they could? Because if this is indeed the case, we're talking potentially thousands of years before they could reach another world that was nearby by galactic standards.

I feel like this is a hole in the fluff that needs to be sorted out. A war as such the War in Heaven is described can't really occur without both sides having some sort of FTL, and the codex makes it clear that the necrons didn't breach the webway until the closing years.
 

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What im saying is that the Dragon simply told the Emperor about the Dolmen Gates, learning about the webway and setting out to replicate their feat of travelling the network to avoid dependence on warp travel.

It wouldnt strike me as farfetched that those 2 powerful beings made an awful deal. In exchange for the knowledge of the ancients. The Emperor would move the dragon to Mars, so it might influence the civilization that would come to grow there as he had foreseen. The dragon getting them as its playthings for a brief cooperation with him.

The dragon, or at least a major shard of it would need time to grow and mature, happilly suckling up the cast off life from the mechanicum adepts as they strove to become closer to their cold ideal.


Edit: Regarding the War in the Heaven. Its easy enough to explain. The full power Cthan would litterally be pushing the necron ships across the universe in the blink of an eye. But after their rebellion, using the Dolmen gates was the only 'reliable' method of transportation they had left. Now that the Cthan's power had been broken.
 

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I'm not so sure about the c'tan being directly responsible for the necron's pre-Dolmen FTL ability.

Given the necrontyr developed mastery over pocket dimensions and stranger technologies long before they found the c'tan, it strikes me that if there was a way to develop FTL tech, they would have. I'm not convinced that c'tan have the ability to traverse the galaxy in the blink of an eye when they themselves were dependent on solar winds to travel between stars.

More likely is that Inertialess Drive is simply retconned.
 

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Given the time frame of the War in Heaven, it seems unlikely that any c'tan would possess the knowledge necessary to hack the webway in the same way as they possess intricate knowledge of how the laws of reality work.

More likely was that Nyadra'Zatha (the c'tan responsible) figured out how the Webway works via some other means and then was able to show the necrons how to make the Dolmen Gates work.


What interests me is how were the necrons able to wage such a war for so long before that? Were they literally just flying from planet to planet via Torch ships and doing their best to wipe out the Old Ones as best they could? Because if this is indeed the case, we're talking potentially thousands of years before they could reach another world that was nearby by galactic standards.

I feel like this is a hole in the fluff that needs to be sorted out. A war as such the War in Heaven is described can't really occur without both sides having some sort of FTL, and the codex makes it clear that the necrons didn't breach the webway until the closing years.
Didn't it say they had faster than light travel in the previous codex prior to their revision?
 

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Didn't it say they had faster than light travel in the previous codex prior to their revision?
Yes, but the current codex has removed that and specified that without their Dolmen Gates they would be forced to rely on slow moving Torch ships instead.
 

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What interests me is how were the necrons able to wage such a war for so long before that? Were they literally just flying from planet to planet via Torch ships and doing their best to wipe out the Old Ones as best they could? Because if this is indeed the case, we're talking potentially thousands of years before they could reach another world that was nearby by galactic standards.

I feel like this is a hole in the fluff that needs to be sorted out. A war as such the War in Heaven is described can't really occur without both sides having some sort of FTL, and the codex makes it clear that the necrons didn't breach the webway until the closing years.
I think it's safe to say the Necrontyr/Necrons utilised an effective method of FTL travel prior to Nyadra'zatha teaching them how to access the webway with Dolmen Gates. Otherwise, as you say, they would have relied on their Torch Ships and wouldn't have even been able to remotely challenge the dominance of the Old Ones and launch the War in Heaven.

The question is then: what happened to this method of FTL travel so that the Necrons now utterly rely on the Dolmen Gates? The only thing I can conceive of is that the technology was lost (perhaps during the Silent King's uprising against the C'tan), although this is tenuous given the Necrons still maintain the most advanced technology in the known galaxy and haven't otherwise shown examples of losing technology. Other than that, it's anyone's guess.

Personally, I've always assumed it was a lore oversight.
 

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The question is then: what happened to this method of FTL travel so that the Necrons now utterly rely on the Dolmen Gates? The only thing I can conceive of is that the technology was lost (perhaps during the Silent King's uprising against the C'tan), although this is tenuous given the Necrons still maintain the most advanced technology in the known galaxy and haven't otherwise shown examples of losing technology. Other than that, it's anyone's guess.
It is heavily hinted that the necrons are a dying race. Having lost all ability to propagate, every necron that is lost is a blow that can't be recovered from. However there is no indication either way as to the state of their technological stability.

The fact that they fear the loss of c'tan shards seems to suggest that they may not have the ability to re-capture them anymore, and it is unclear on just how much of a threat these escaped/destroyed shards are without a necrodermis shell. Lore from the Apocalypse book suggests that destroyed c'tan shards are re-claimed by their parent deity, but makes no further reference. Given that the more expanded lore of 40k makes no reference to these beings, it seems that as with the old lore their ability is limited without the necrodermis that the necrons provide.

Which leads me to ask why do the necrons keep them intact at all? I feel this is another oversight, unless there is a yet to be released fragment of lore that might tie this up.
 

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However, it's very hard to "lose" a Necron. You can destroy his biometallic shell, but his "real" conciousness just downloads to another one, and returns. They are neither dying nor growing. All that they have is it. Other than the AI that's replicating into Biometallic shells. He can grow forever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
So in retrospect before ctan taught em how to use the webway to fuck over the old ones they perhaps used something akin to mass effect mass relay there inertial drive cept no giant relay necessary. Sure mass travel allows you easy and fast transportation bu the you can't hide in it unlike th web way.

when they discovered how webway works it seemed they wanted to play the old ones and eldar a bad joke as in saying we can use your webway you are screwed now no more places to hide. and yes the old ones after webway was breached were seriously fucked same way the eldars will be if anyone breaches there precious webway
 

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There are three things to say about this, Demon.

1) The C'tan were in control, what they said, went. And yes, they were more interested in disrupting the webway for their enemies the Eldar instead of caring for the race they tricked into leaving their bodies.

2) We don't know what the Inertial Drives did, or how much power they take/took. It's very possible the designs are still known to the Necrons, but they need something like a captive star to power them, and the 'crons don't generate power like that. The C'tan certainly could.

3) Domen Gates are easy and efficient to use. And, bear in mind, some Necrontyr are starting to deal with the younger races, and build hybrid empires. They MAY have warp travel through them. And, maybe they can discover a way to do warp travel without a Psyker, especially if they capture Tau Semi-Warp drives.
 

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I think it's safe to say the Necrontyr/Necrons utilised an effective method of FTL travel prior to Nyadra'zatha teaching them how to access the webway with Dolmen Gates. Otherwise, as you say, they would have relied on their Torch Ships and wouldn't have even been able to remotely challenge the dominance of the Old Ones and launch the War in Heaven.

The question is then: what happened to this method of FTL travel so that the Necrons now utterly rely on the Dolmen Gates? The only thing I can conceive of is that the technology was lost (perhaps during the Silent King's uprising against the C'tan), although this is tenuous given the Necrons still maintain the most advanced technology in the known galaxy and haven't otherwise shown examples of losing technology. Other than that, it's anyone's guess.

Personally, I've always assumed it was a lore oversight.
The Necrons have a pretty good idea what's out there for enemies to face. Perhaps their ships still have the FTL drive's but they choose not to use them because the longer it takes to reach a planet the more the competition fights itself.
 

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However, it's very hard to "lose" a Necron. You can destroy his biometallic shell, but his "real" conciousness just downloads to another one, and returns. They are neither dying nor growing. All that they have is it. Other than the AI that's replicating into Biometallic shells. He can grow forever.
It is actually quite easy to "lose" a necron. If enough damage occurs to the Tomb World's backup systems, or something disrupts the phase out protocols, that necron is gone. And this can happen to the best of necrons, be they a simple immortal or a phaeron.

This is before you consider the somewhat feudal nature of necron politics, where many a lord will happily engineer the permanent death of a rival in order to gain a stronger power hold for himself. Even crypteks, normally responsible for maintenance of such systems are not above making accidents happen should they feel slighted by their clients.

2) We don't know what the Inertial Drives did, or how much power they take/took. It's very possible the designs are still known to the Necrons, but they need something like a captive star to power them, and the 'crons don't generate power like that. The C'tan certainly could.
The necrons are still quite capable of draining and weaponizing or otherwise utilizing the energy from stars. Even their resurrection orb technology is basically a miniaturized star in a bottle.

3) Domen Gates are easy and efficient to use. And, bear in mind, some Necrontyr are starting to deal with the younger races, and build hybrid empires. They MAY have warp travel through them. And, maybe they can discover a way to do warp travel without a Psyker, especially if they capture Tau Semi-Warp drives.
Tau warp travel is unsuitable for large scale galactic travel. Nor does it account for what the necrons used before the dolmen gates.

The Necrons have a pretty good idea what's out there for enemies to face. Perhaps their ships still have the FTL drive's but they choose not to use them because the longer it takes to reach a planet the more the competition fights itself.
But the codex states specifically that they rely on the Dolmen Gates, and would be forced to use slow moving stasis ships without them.



Something that has just occurred to me is gravity. The Imperium and eldar both use gravity tech, which makes me inclined to think the necrons could use it as well. And we know that the tyranids are also able to manipulate gravity as well by creating steep gravity wells around a planet's gravity field in order to travel FTL. This strikes me as something the necrons should easily be capable of as well. :scratchhead:
 
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