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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi I have just started my first 40k army and decided to go with a Word Bearers theme so keep that in mind. Any optimisation to the list, while trying to keep to the theme, would be appreciated before I start to build stuff.
Chaos Space marine List: 1001 points (would this point be a problem in a friendly game?)

HQ- Dark Apostle- Burning brand- 135

Troops- 20x cultists- two flamers, autoguns- 117

10x CSM- two plasmaguns, VotLW, Rhino w/ havoc launcher- 227

10x CSM- two plasmaguns, VotLW, Rhino w/ havoc launcher- 227

Elite- Hellbrute- 2xpowerfist- two combi-bolters- 115

Heavy Support- Chaos Predator- Lascannon sponsons, twin-linked lascannon- 180
 

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For being your first army list, this is really good. To start off, no, this extra one point would not be a problem in a friendly game. If the person is really stupid and thinks that that one point gives you a greater chance of winning the battle, (or you're in a tournament), then you are lucky. You can just knock an autogun off one cultist!

The list is very strong for 1000 points, however I would have a few ideas to make it better. The Burning Brand is excellent if you don't have a Heldrake, however it becomes even better when the wielder is mobile (say, when he is a flying daemon prince, or on a bike). However, at this point level, he is fine as is. (Also, remember that he can take VoTLW for free, so always take it). 20 cultists are good, however if you get another unit of them in 1000 points, they can actually become very powerful. I would be tempted to drop one CSM squad, and replace it with 2x20 cultists, just like the first squad. However, that's just me. The CSM squads are good, however I would be struggling to find a use for VoTLW. I know that you are trying to be fluffy, however it wouldn't hurt to drop VoTLW in these squads (you will still get the Word Bearers feel with the cultists and dark apostle). With the spare 20 points, give a combi-plasma to each squad, so, on one turn you may be able to fire 6 plasma shots! Alternatively, you can combine the 10 man squads into one glorious 20 man squad for the honour of the dark gods :laugh: (or is that a bit much). Helbrutes aren't the most competitive of units in the Chaos codex, so, if you want to, you could drop it in exchange for a Chaos Biker squad (one of the most competitive options), or, if you really want a walker, a Maulerfiend. I am aware that these aren't the most competitive either, however they are just really awesome. If you want to keep the Helbrute, I think he got FAQ'd and is now cheaper (you should check out the FAQ page). The Chaos predator provides some strong anti-tank.

Good job and good luck with the list. It has a high model count, which will always give it a huge advantage over elite lists: they will be struggling to bring enough shots to bear before they are overwhelmed by cultists and the dark apostle's evil chanting!!!!
Heirophant.
 

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Yeah from codex to FAQ they went from 105 - 100 for Helbruts. Though i agree i do dislike them.
HOWEVER with a small bit of tweeking he could make them in to a Helcult giving the big guy a nice save at the expense of a few cultests.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well it is nice to know it isn't that bad. In regards to removing an autogun for the one point excess I honestly thought that the guns were "all or nothing" and all cultist had to be given them, good to know for the future.

I contemplated a combi-weapon but as only two can fire out of the rhino it seemed a bit of a waste...

As you sound like someone who likes to use cultists could you (or anyone else) give me any advice on how to use them? While they fit the Word Bearers vibe I have a suspicion they will eat every anti-infantry weapon on turn one when the rest of my troops are hiding in there rhinos.

Also this is a high model count? just how elite are the elite armies?
 

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Well yeah if the cultists have soaked up a load of fire then normally this is a good thing. It at least is better than the move expensive stuff taking the hits. Effectly they will run around as a skirmish screen or just hop around objectives as they can.
 

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the list can be ok in friendly games.
i too second the idea of dropping CSM unit to add 2 cultists units and heavy flamer + reaper autocannon on the brute, making it an Helcult. that way you are golden with fearless cultists and 3+ cover helbrute!!
The apostle, i despise gamewise, but its good for that Word bearers feeling ;) maybe give him MoTzeentch to boost his save?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What exactly is a helcult? is it some extra/non-gw rulebook thing?
Also i would rather not add to many cultists, painting 20 was bad enough...

I recently played this list, with appropriately sized air-fix proxies for the rhinos and pred, against a fellow noob's eldar, predator and apostle were stars of the show however the cultists just evaporated as until he cracked the first rhino (which took a surprising amount of time) they took every non-anti tank shot to the face. Although they did body guard the apostle quite well.

If I had other footsloggers they may have served a purpose but his avengers had literally no other target, it was like they were shooting my cultists out of boredom.
 

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http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Dataslate-Helbrutes-eBook-Edition

like

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Belakor-Digital-Collection-eBook-Edition

is a dataslate they made to expand the content of the book with a bitesize (kinda like DLC) chunk for extra money.
Belakor is great, while the Helbrute models were very very underused before. Though with the addition of the Dataslate the Helcult (used a lot) and Mayhem pack (used a bit) meant that you saw them at least sometimes.

There are multiple online reviews for things like that and stuff like the Crimson Slaughter Supplement that gives you enough information to decide if it is worth buying. Though some reviews like on Total War Gaming tend to give away the whole rules section of the codex but very mildly reworded to avoid GW being able to shut it down.
 
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