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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Guys,

I have been out of the hobby for a little while, I was sincerely pissed at GW for fucking up both my CSM and imperial guards with their power Codex like Necrons and Eldars...Just my opinion.

Now I am still pissed but I miss playing with my friends so i decided to start again but slowly. I have been a long time player of CSM and Imperial guards. As we all know, both of these armies are not very competitive anymore. Chaos is chaos, an army too expensive with no good transports while maelstrom is not very gentle on the Guards. While I still love both of my armies, I am getting tired of always fighting an uphill battle so I am looking for a new primary army.

While I wait for my codex to be re-written (might be a while) I was thinking about putting together a new army. And this one needs to be a strong one. My Meta is loaded with Necrons and as you can imagine, my love for armored company was crushed big time. The idea would be to start small, play my guards with these guys as new allies and eventually play these guys with my guards as allies.

Here are the conditions:

- Cannot be Eldars or Necrons (I sold my Eldar and my meta is loaded with Necrons)
- Needs to be a competitive army

For those of you that would suggest Marines, which ones? I already have a small (very small) contingent of Grey Knights, space wolves and Dark angels (starter box)..

That being said, I am open to starting any other chapter...I just have no knowledge of the Space marines and have not yet read their codex (any of them).

Thx for the help guys
 

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As of current codexes space marines (codex astartes) can be very competitive and dark angels are joicy too.
If you want some "easy" and powerful army, tau are still good, otherwise a daemonic flying circus is a nice army to have, just like some fancy marines scout list (not bad at all).
However i'd just suggest eldar or necrons (i know, i know...)
Grey knights are meh. (competitively speaking)
Otherwise just fuck the shit up and make youself an army of imperial knights. (3 knights, inquisition allied with some centurion shenanigans, 1850 pts sweet as cheese.)
Boom, bitches! :biggrin:
 

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Have you considered Chaos Daemons. It would be something that could be used with your chaos warband or you could go straight daemons.
Fateweaver
2x Heralds of Tzeentch Level 3 Discs, and Exalted Reward
2x Herald of Nurgle Level 2, Greater Reward (one Locus of Fecundity)
10 Pink Horrors
11 Pink Horrors
2x 8 Screamers
8 Plague Drones with Venom Sting, and Champion with a Greater Reward
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Have you considered Chaos Daemons. It would be something that could be used with your chaos warband or you could go straight daemons.
Fateweaver
2x Heralds of Tzeentch Level 3 Discs, and Exalted Reward
2x Herald of Nurgle Level 2, Greater Reward (one Locus of Fecundity)
10 Pink Horrors
11 Pink Horrors
2x 8 Screamers
8 Plague Drones with Venom Sting, and Champion with a Greater Reward
Oh I though about it, I already have a few deamon and I like the models...DO you mind talking about how you play this type of list?

How about the heralds of nurgle with Plague drones, that one seams a bit weird in terms of movement.
Also would you feel confident running into necrons with a list like that?
 

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yes you should play chaos daemons! Stay with the powers of darkness and let the galaxy burn! In all seriousness my friend plays chaos daemons and he wins 40k tournaments all the time so they seem pretty competitive.
 

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I imagine you can string out the Plague Drones as far as you need to for the salower Heralds, then whenever you make an assault you slingshot the Heralds back to the heart of the combat with pile in moves. The list is a dual deathstar (or even triple, though one Screamer unit won't get Grimoire, if you roll well enough on HoT powers) of sorts, and it's placed pretty highly in tourneys lately: Screamerstar plus Dronestar, buffed, massaged and tweaked by Fateweaver where necessary. It'll dominate the psychic phase, has good mobility, and it has the option to branch out into summoning to cover ground and objectives--but isn't invested in MSU if kill points rear their ugly head.

I imagine it would struggle pretty hard against the newly released MSU Space Marine competitive lists, though--I dunno if it would be able to spawn summoned squads fast enough to counteract all that ObSec, or have enough anti-tank to clear all those Razorbacks/Drop Pods.

I haven't heard about how competitive the AdMech are, but you may be able to proxy Guard as them to a degree. Sentinels as Ballistarii, Kasrkin (or even guardsmen) as Skitarii, etc. They seem like quite the glass cannon (except for the Kataphron and the Kastellan units), but may well be worth it--especially that formation where every single unit upgrade you buy is free.
 

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I would go for Daemons too, regarding CSM, or Inquisition/Grey Knights regarding AM : firstly as Allied detachments, aiming for CAD in the future. This would give some more diversity to your current armies, and maybe some more punch/surprise to your army lists.

You would then have two strong forces (one renegade, one loyalist) which could be adapted to the current and future sets of rules ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I would go for Daemons too, regarding CSM, or Inquisition/Grey Knights regarding AM : firstly as Allied detachments, aiming for CAD in the future. This would give some more diversity to your current armies, and maybe some more punch/surprise to your army lists.

You would then have two strong forces (one renegade, one loyalist) which could be adapted to the current and future sets of rules ;)
I already have a dreadknight draigo amd a squad of paladin...

I was also tempted by the new space marine formations....I could go for deamon and space marines...punching both my other armies at the same time.
 

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Oh I though about it, I already have a few deamon and I like the models...DO you mind talking about how you play this type of list?

How about the heralds of nurgle with Plague drones, that one seams a bit weird in terms of movement.
Also would you feel confident running into necrons with a list like that?
Not sure how it works exactly I got the list from nick nanavati that won a couple of big tournaments with the list. It is a list I have been thinking of compiling. It seems like the drones are mainly there to distraction, sacrificial units reading his battle reports about the army.

I imagine you can string out the Plague Drones as far as you need to for the salower Heralds, then whenever you make an assault you slingshot the Heralds back to the heart of the combat with pile in moves. The list is a dual deathstar (or even triple, though one Screamer unit won't get Grimoire, if you roll well enough on HoT powers) of sorts, and it's placed pretty highly in tourneys lately: Screamerstar plus Dronestar, buffed, massaged and tweaked by Fateweaver where necessary. It'll dominate the psychic phase, has good mobility, and it has the option to branch out into summoning to cover ground and objectives--but isn't invested in MSU if kill points rear their ugly head.

I imagine it would struggle pretty hard against the newly released MSU Space Marine competitive lists, though--I dunno if it would be able to spawn summoned squads fast enough to counteract all that ObSec, or have enough anti-tank to clear all those Razorbacks/Drop Pods.

I haven't heard about how competitive the AdMech are, but you may be able to proxy Guard as them to a degree. Sentinels as Ballistarii, Kasrkin (or even guardsmen) as Skitarii, etc. They seem like quite the glass cannon (except for the Kataphron and the Kastellan units), but may well be worth it--especially that formation where every single unit upgrade you buy is free.
Mossy seems to have a good idea how the army works.
 

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If you still like Guard I could suggest taking Elysians. I use the D-99 Vets list found in IA 4 Second Edition and the massed plane spam certainly is fun to use. Especially since FW fixed (Read broke) the way flyers DS. Plus Vector Dancer Vultures.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If you still like Guard I could suggest taking Elysians. I use the D-99 Vets list found in IA 4 Second Edition and the massed plane spam certainly is fun to use. Especially since FW fixed (Read broke) the way flyers DS. Plus Vector Dancer Vultures.
Oh I still love my Guards and will never get rid of this army, that being said I am looking for something with a little more punch Considering the current state of the game.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hey Guys,

Went for a games yesterday and before buying anything I ecided to try a Khorne daemonkin army.

While they might not be the most competitive, It was a really fun game. I was able to get 3 bloodthirster in the entire game which was awesome.

Played against a good friend a very good dark eldar player. He ran a list that is very close combat. I was in trouble at the end of turn 2 but the blood points are amazing.

They got me back in the game and I ended up winning on turn 4. He almost got it away from me because if I am not mistaken, we do not have objective secures units in daemonkin Blood host.

That being said, if the games would have gone further than turn 5 I would have tabled him.

Great game and very cool codex. Not convinced the Blood thirster are super strong but one thing for sure, they get a lot of attention off of the rest of the army.

Might go all daemons and CSM after all :)
 

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I imagine it would struggle pretty hard against the newly released MSU Space Marine competitive lists, though--I dunno if it would be able to spawn summoned squads fast enough to counteract all that ObSec, or have enough anti-tank to clear all those Razorbacks/Drop Pods.
That Space Marine list really isn't all it's cracked up to be, from what I've seen. It's fragile, and has no kind of damage output outside of maybe some Devastators or a squad of Centurions plus the odd guns from the Razorbacks and Tactical Squads (150pts for one Lascannon shot and a Plasma Gun, what good value...). Apart from having a bunch of OS units, it's a highly impotent list.

I haven't heard about how competitive the AdMech are, but you may be able to proxy Guard as them to a degree. Sentinels as Ballistarii, Kasrkin (or even guardsmen) as Skitarii, etc. They seem like quite the glass cannon (except for the Kataphron and the Kastellan units), but may well be worth it--especially that formation where every single unit upgrade you buy is free.
Skitarii are pretty good as is, but Drop Pods from a Flesh Tearers detachment make them insane. Drop in a bunch of squads with 3-shot Plasma Guns at BS7 on the first turn, Relentless Grav Cannons from the Destroyers, or three Haywire guns per unit, and all at -1 cover - they're pretty much the Imperial Dark Eldar, from what I've seen. Insane damage output, can't really take it in return. The War Convocation is good, but you can easily end up wasting some of the units if you don't know what you're doing with them (I've seen a bunch of games where the Ruststalkers and Infiltrators just sat around doing nothing in particular, which is a hefty chunk of points gone from the list - not as hefty a chunk as the free stuff you're receiving, but still very noticeable).

My own advice? Play the armies you have better. I switched from pure Grey Knights and Ork Battlewagon Rush lists I knew really well and did well with to a Space Marine ObSec/Centurion Star build and I've lost almost every game I've played, despite the list being pretty objectively 'better'.

Sure, there are some lists that are better than others, but if your list isn't a total piece of crap then you can do really well with it through practice and knowing the army. The amount of times I've seen someone switch to a 'competitive' list and do worse with it than they did before, you would not believe.

(Also, if you're fighting a Dark Eldar combat list, I'm not sure I'm convinced you need something competitive...)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
That Space Marine list really isn't all it's cracked up to be, from what I've seen. It's fragile, and has no kind of damage output outside of maybe some Devastators or a squad of Centurions plus the odd guns from the Razorbacks and Tactical Squads (150pts for one Lascannon shot and a Plasma Gun, what good value...). Apart from having a bunch of OS units, it's a highly impotent list.



Skitarii are pretty good as is, but Drop Pods from a Flesh Tearers detachment make them insane. Drop in a bunch of squads with 3-shot Plasma Guns at BS7 on the first turn, Relentless Grav Cannons from the Destroyers, or three Haywire guns per unit, and all at -1 cover - they're pretty much the Imperial Dark Eldar, from what I've seen. Insane damage output, can't really take it in return. The War Convocation is good, but you can easily end up wasting some of the units if you don't know what you're doing with them (I've seen a bunch of games where the Ruststalkers and Infiltrators just sat around doing nothing in particular, which is a hefty chunk of points gone from the list - not as hefty a chunk as the free stuff you're receiving, but still very noticeable).

My own advice? Play the armies you have better. I switched from pure Grey Knights and Ork Battlewagon Rush lists I knew really well and did well with to a Space Marine ObSec/Centurion Star build and I've lost almost every game I've played, despite the list being pretty objectively 'better'.

Sure, there are some lists that are better than others, but if your list isn't a total piece of crap then you can do really well with it through practice and knowing the army. The amount of times I've seen someone switch to a 'competitive' list and do worse with it than they did before, you would not believe.

(Also, if you're fighting a Dark Eldar combat list, I'm not sure I'm convinced you need something competitive...)

Thank you for your points. I know Dark Eldar are not The codex of the hour but this is really good, I have seen him beat a lot thougher armies with this list. anyway, I have decided to expand what I already have. i already have some daemons and will expand. I think I can do really well with daemons. I can ally to or with my CSM. Or i could also try my guards as renegades.

I will keep playing my guards for sure, they are my biggest army and I love them a lot. I just despise the fact that I cannot play them like I want with a Necron heavy meta. i will find a way.
 
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